so are we ready for WW3?

[Cheap Tipper]

No, I believe that the Jewish holocaust did happen. What does this have to do with not allowing Iran to have nucleur weapons? Remember, the revolutionary fathers of America were considered terrorist back in the 1770s.

I agree with Count Zero. The Israeli lobby have the American political system by the balls. Most Americans don't give a shit about some country half a world away that they'll never see or visit, and does nothing for them. Let them have a taste of their own medicine, I say.

[Domer]

This is the "First Lady" of the nation in question, and no this is not a photoshop.

[Cheap Tipper]

Would you like me to post a picture of one of the Bush twins, hammered, and falling over, in a mini-skirt?

Maybe we in the West need to understand that their idea of freedom is not having to see their twelve year old daughters and sisters walk around in mini-skirts.

What you posted is not proof of how backward "they" are, but proof of how uneducated you are.

[StarnetGypsy]

Originally Posted by count zero

If only we'd gone the isolationist route we'd be a happy and prosperous country today.

ayep. i have espoused that since the 60's and actually gave lectures on how it could be accomplished ....

look at the date of this article - Bayonets for Technocrats - TIME

what i believed in was Technocracy ... which stated: "Technocracy proposes that the North American Continent be operated as a self-contained functional unit under technological control."

An Analysis Of Technocracy

Howard Scott and his fellow scientists laid the groundwork for a utopian society, for North America, in the 30's.

(instead of having our enemies amongst us as we do now, our borders and immigration would have been shut down back then)

[(sportman)]

She is very pretty Domer

[Domer]

Originally Posted by Cheap Tipper

No, I believe that the Jewish holocaust did happen. What does this have to do with not allowing Iran to have nucleur weapons? Remember, the revolutionary fathers of America were considered terrorist back in the 1770s.

I agree with Count Zero. The Israeli lobby have the American political system by the balls. Most Americans don't give a shit about some country half a world away that they'll never see or visit, and does nothing for them. Let them have a taste of their own medicine, I say.

It has everything to do with you believing that Iran is the "victim" of Israel and should be allowed to have weapons. The reality is exactly the opposite. If Israel had no military or allies, they would be wiped out by their neighbors in days. Days. Israel has military superiority against all of their neighbors combined yet does nothing. And drop the "attack against Lebanon" crap. They didn't attack Lebanon, they attacked a region of the country that is controlled by Hezbollah. For all intents and purpose it's its own territory.

"Most Americans don't give a shit about some country half a world away..."

Wrong again. Polling consistently shows 50%+ of this country supports Israel (its at 60% right now), 15% supports Palestine, and the rest don't care.

[Cheap Tipper]

Originally Posted by Domer

It has everything to do with you believing that Iran is the "victim" of Israel and should be allowed to have weapons. The reality is exactly the opposite. If Israel had no military or allies, they would be wiped out by their neighbors in days. Days. Israel has military superiority against all of their neighbors combined yet does nothing. And drop the "attack against Lebanon" crap. They didn't attack Lebanon, they attacked a region of the country that is controlled by Hezbollah. For all intents and purpose it's its own territory.

"Most Americans don't give a shit about some country half a world away..."

Wrong again. Polling consistently shows 50%+ of this country supports Israel (its at 60% right now), 15% supports Palestine, and the rest don't care.

Why then, can 90% of Americans not point out Israel on a world map?

[StarnetGypsy]

Originally Posted by Domer

Wrong again. Polling consistently shows 50%+ of this country supports Israel (its at 60% right now), 15% supports Palestine, and the rest don't care.

lol ... and most of them couldn't find it on a map

[Domer]

Originally Posted by Cheap Tipper

Would you like me to post a picture of one of the Bush twins, hammered, and falling over, in a mini-skirt?

Maybe we in the West need to understand that their idea of freedom is not having to see their twelve year old daughters and sisters walk around in mini-skirts.

What you posted is not proof of how backward "they" are, but proof of how uneducated you are.

Are you really going to argue that Iranians have freedom? Where should we start here? Apostates? Homosexuals? Women? And that's just the start.

Seriously, are you brainwashed? I'm not even joking when I ask that. Iran is one of the least free countries on this planet.

Freedom House does an annual listing of countries ranked by freedom. Iran is near the very bottom of the list and is qualified as "Not Free."

This is getting stupid.

[Cheap Tipper]

Originally Posted by Domer

Are you really going to argue that Iranians have freedom? Where should we start here? Apostates? Homosexuals? Women? And that's just the start.

Seriously, are you brainwashed? I'm not even joking when I ask that. Iran is one of the least free countries on this planet.

Freedom House does an annual listing of countries ranked by freedom. Iran is near the very bottom of the list and is qualified as "Not Free."

This is getting stupid.

Stick to the topic. Iran have demonstrated that they are capable of bombing Israel if the US attacks them. How is this any different from your "Israeli deterrent" argument? Attack only when attacked first?

[JC]

Israel went into Lebanon last year because they were being bombarded with rocket attacks on a daily basis. It was hardly for "No reason."

Israel is the only true democracy in the region. That's a good reason to support them.

The "Palestinian" leadership, Arafat and others are the ones who have over the years taken a lion's share of the aid for themselves at the expense of their people.

I get the whole one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Believe me I do, more than you'll ever know. However, I don't see how blowing up buses full of school children or wedding receptions advances their cause. When Israel hits civilian targets, it is truly collateral damage. These animals target civilians.

I don't think there is some super strong Israel lobby in the US more powerful than the drug companies.

The whole "Palestinian" movement was not born out of some movement of Palstinian people, but out of anti-semitism.

When they carved Palestine into Israel and Jordan, Jordan got the lion's share of the land. Jordan and the other arab nations refused to accept any arab refugees into their country. Israel welcomed all Jewish refugees from around the world.

I don't know why the arabs hate the jews so much or resent their existence. If they could all agree to respect each other's borders, things would be a lot more peaceful. Look at Israel and Egypt, very peaceful since 1979.

Those are just a few of my thoughts.

[JC]

About Iran,

If you are going to call hezbollah freedom fighters, you should be consistent about the hostage takers in Iran.

In the early 50's the US helped overthrow a democratically elected government in Iran and replaced it with the Shah, a US stooge and fascist dictator. 20+ years later the people rose up and threw him out, the pendulum swung pretty hard in the other direction. It didn't help either that Jimmy Carter allowed the Shah into the US for medical treatment.

That's why they were pissed.

[StarnetGypsy]

Originally Posted by Domer

This is getting stupid.

now that's the smartest thing that's been said so far, Domer.

there's no debating about the right of Israel to exist, not when their very existence in the state they live in now was supported by the major western powers in '48.

the only thing we should be asking is how long are we (the western powers) going to stand on the sidelines before we put a halt to the constant violence from that region. (and fuck Bush/Cheney for escalating it)

[Cheap Tipper]

Originally Posted by JC

Israel went into Lebanon last year because they were being bombarded with rocket attacks on a daily basis. It was hardly for "No reason."

Israel is the only true democracy in the region. That's a good reason to support them.

The "Palestinian" leadership, Arafat and others are the ones who have over the years taken a lion's share of the aid for themselves at the expense of their people.

I get the whole one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Believe me I do, more than you'll ever know. However, I don't see how blowing up buses full of school children or wedding receptions advances their cause. When Israel hits civilian targets, it is truly collateral damage. These animals target civilians.

I don't think there is some super strong Israel lobby in the US more powerful than the drug companies.

The whole "Palestinian" movement was not born out of some movement of Palstinian people, but out of anti-semitism.

When they carved Palestine into Israel and Jordan, Jordan got the lion's share of the land. Jordan and the other arab nations refused to accept any arab refugees into their country. Israel welcomed all Jewish refugees from around the world.

I don't know why the arabs hate the jews so much or resent their existence. If they could all agree to respect each other's borders, things would be a lot more peaceful. Look at Israel and Egypt, very peaceful since 1979.

Those are just a few of my thoughts.

JC, you make some intelligent observations here. I have bolded the one point which I strongly disagree with you. Religion is irrelevant. I'm from Ireland, and most people in North America seem convinced that there is a fight there between Catholics and Protestants. Religion has absolutely nothing to do with it and is just used as an excuse to explain a much more complicated conflict to the sheep.

I live in Canada now. If me and my buddies start launching missiles into Buffalo from Toronto, does that give the US government carte blanche to attack all of Canada? The international community wouldn't stand for it.

[Domer]

Originally Posted by Cheap Tipper

Stick to the topic. Iran have demonstrated that they are capable of bombing Israel if the US attacks them. How is this any different from your "Israeli deterrent" argument? Attack only when attacked first?

This is the topic. Iran is a backward nation run by the insane, where freedom is nonexistent, religion runs the country (and those who disagree are murdered), and "Death to Israel" is the chant at *ALL* political rallies. Israel will bomb the crap out of their nuclear facilities at a moment's notice if they feel threatened -- and be perfectly justified in doing so.

[StarnetGypsy]

Originally Posted by JC

When they carved Palestine into Israel and Jordan, Jordan got the lion's share of the land. Jordan and the other arab nations refused to accept any arab refugees into their country. Israel welcomed all Jewish refugees from around the world.

I don't know why the arabs hate the jews so much or resent their existence. If they could all agree to respect each other's borders, things would be a lot more peaceful. Look at Israel and Egypt, very peaceful since 1979.

ayep.

and this type of diplomacy should be our focus now "Look at Israel and Egypt, very peaceful since 1979"

[Cheap Tipper]

Originally Posted by Domer

This is the topic. Iran is a backward nation run by the insane, where freedom is nonexistent, religion runs the country (and those who disagree are murdered), and "Death to Israel" is the chant at *ALL* political rallies. Israel will bomb the crap out of their nuclear facilities at a moment's notice if they feel threatened -- and be perfectly justified in doing so.

No country is justified in bombing another country without sufficient aggression from the other country. The international community let the US get away with Iraq, it won't let them go after millions of innocent people in Iran.

Iran is not an Arab country, you should remember that. Perhaps you didn't learn that in the wonderful American education system.

[StarnetGypsy]

Originally Posted by Cheap Tipper

Perhaps you didn't learn that in the wonderful American education system.

be nice mate. education here is what a person makes of it

righty right?

[Cheap Tipper]

I disagree. I was educated in Ireland, which was a third world country at the time I went to school, then moved to North America and I have lived in both the US and Canada since. Public university in both countries was a joke.

When you say it's what you make of it, it's more like, what you can pay for it.

God bless the USA!

Not much different than saying "Praise Allah", is it?