so are we ready for WW3?

[Mr Falcone]

Originally Posted by Cheap Tipper

What gives you the right to make the rules? The USA is the only country ever to nuke another country. You should be the last country to have an opinion on this.

USA makes the rules...................By being the biggest bully on the block gives them the right............

[Domer]

Originally Posted by Cheap Tipper

As for Iran, I hope they wipe Israel off the face of the earth. The Palestinian/Israeli conflict has been fueling worldwide trouble for decades. Israel think they're so strong and mighty just because their money controls American politics. It's time they got a taste of their own medicine, for doing things like enslaving Palestinians and attacking Lebanon two years ago for no reason at all.

So you hope they wipe a population off the face of the Earth? Was Hitler your hero growing up?

Yeah the Israelis are enslaving Palestinians and attacking Lebanon without reason. Riiiight, another reality based argument. The destitution of Palestine has nothing to do with Hamas, Fatah, and all of the backward savages running that territory who funnel money away from schools, medicine, and food, and toward weapons to blow up innocent Israelis and towards their own bank accounts. Yup, blame Israel. You do realize that Arafat was one of the richest people in the world at his death? He funneled hundreds of millions away from his people, and towards himself. The guy was a corrupt piece of shit who didn't care at all about Palestine. As far as Lebanon, I can only assume that you are completely unaware of the existence of Hezbollah. A terrorist group supported overtly by Iran, whose sole purpose of existence is destroying Israel.

[Bostongambler]

The Middle East has been fighting since the begiining of time it seems and they will proberbly forever. (Although I hope someday there will be peace in that region)... More wars in the name of religion again.


But I don't think "To Wipe out Israel" is ever the answer. Or any group of people for that matter. Once again are you Hitler.

[drunkguy]

Originally Posted by Domer

Am I right in assuming that you see no problem in Iran - a state sponsor of terrorism; a country that took US hostages; and a country whose official foreign policy towards Israel is one of hopeful annihilation - possessing nuclear weapons? This is a bit insane.
.

my opinion is that no one should be in possession of nuclear weapons


i also hold the position that condoning one country's possession of nukes while preventing another's is way beyond our authority

no Iran shouldn't have them. Neither should Israel. To argue that one should while another should not seems absurd to me

[Bostongambler]

Shouldn't we be the Worlds Policeman. I think with all our fortune and resources that have made us a World leader it sort of comes with the territory.

[Domer]

That's a good hypothetical argument (no one should have nukes), but the fact of the matter is that Israel already has nukes whether you approve or not. The question now is should Iran possess nuclear weapons. The obvious answer is no.

Israel possesses weapons as a deterrent. Iran's possible acquisition of nuclear weapons would be for purposes of threatening and/or using them against Israel.

[Cheap Tipper]

Originally Posted by Domer

So you hope they wipe a population off the face of the Earth? Was Hitler your hero growing up?

Yeah the Israelis are enslaving Palestinians and attacking Lebanon without reason. Riiiight, another reality based argument. The destitution of Palestine has nothing to do with Hamas, Fatah, and all of the backward savages running that territory who funnel money away from schools, medicine, and food, and toward weapons to blow up innocent Israelis and towards their own bank accounts. Yup, blame Israel. You do realize that Arafat was one of the richest people in the world at his death? He funneled hundreds of millions away from his people, and towards himself. The guy was a corrupt piece of shit who didn't care at all about Palestine. As far as Lebanon, I can only assume that you are completely unaware of the existence of Hezbollah. A terrorist group supported overtly by Iran, whose sole purpose of existence is destroying Israel.

That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. I respect it. However, my personal opinion is that Hezbollah is not a terrorist organization, but valiant freedom fighters. Personally, I believe that it is Israel who are terrorizing the Palestinians.

No, Hitler was not my hero growing up. It is that kind of political rhetoric that is destroying the United States. Instead of having so many way out to left or way out to right wing, people need to intelligently debate issues in a respectful manner.

[Cheap Tipper]

Originally Posted by Domer

Israel possesses weapons as a deterrent.

That is your opinion. I do not agree. I think that they possess weapons for the same reason anyone owns weapons - to use them. Instead of having all these weapons, they should look deeper at the root cause of why all the countries around them hate them and take steps to fix that. Don't tell me it is because of their religion, that is a naive and uninformed view.

[(sportman)]

they should look deeper at the root cause of why all the countries around them hate them and take steps to fix that.


Now that is funny

[Cheap Tipper]

Why is it funny? If everyone hated you child in school and made fun of him, wouldn't you want him to change his behaviour, rather than give him a machine gun and tell him to blow any kid away that looks funny at him?

[StarnetGypsy]

Originally Posted by Cheap Tipper

Israel think they're so strong and mighty just because their money controls American politics.

OK, you lost me here Tipper. I agree Israel has the USA in a chokehold, but it's not because of their money. The American taxpayer supports the Israeli war effort ...

"In addition to nearly $3 billion in direct aid, Israel usually gets another $3 billion or so in indirect aid: military support from the defense budget, forgiven loans, and special grants. While some of the indirect aid is difficult to measure precisely, it is safe to say that Israelis total aid (direct and indirect) amounts to at least five billion dollars annually."

As far as how many nukes Israel has, estimates are between 100 & 200.

w/re to their cooperation with the UN to confirm what their arsenel is ....

"Israel is now the only state with nuclear weapons that does not admit to having such weapons. It has always refused to allow international inspection of the Dimona facility, and is among the few states that have refused to sign the nuclear non-proliferation treaty."

sorta sounds like Iran, don't it?

When i was studying politics i had the opportunity to meet Palestinians, Iranians, and Israelis. The Iranians & Israelis were definately the most arrogant of the lot, and the Palestinians were easy to sympathise with as victims.

imo Iran is simply participating in the brinkmanship that Israel is putting forth with their threat of an attack on the Iranian facilities, i.e. "sabre rattling", and hopefully this will dissuade an attack until hopefully Obama is elected and can launch a fullscale diplomatic assault .... let's hope cooler heads can prevail in keeping Bush/Cheney at bay until then?

[(sportman)]

Originally Posted by Cheap Tipper

Why is it funny? If everyone hated you child in school and made fun of him, wouldn't you want him to change his behaviour, rather than give him a machine gun and tell him to blow any kid away that looks funny at him?

One on one is a heck of a lot different than the masses

[Cheap Tipper]

When I say that Israel have control of US politics, it has nothing to do with the American taxpayer. It has to do with the Israeli political lobby in the US, more powerful than drug companies, insurance, even oil and gas. Anyone who wants to become president of the USA has to be on board with the Israeli cause, or else they don't stand a chance. It's something called campaign contributions. Howard Dean was the last viable major candidate who didn't support Israel, and look what the media did to him.

[Cheap Tipper]

Originally Posted by (sportman)

One on one is a heck of a lot different than the masses

Nobody has invaded Israel in my lifetime. However, Israel launched an attack on Lebanon two years ago that made my stomach turn. Absolutely no provocation from the Lebanese government or it's people.

[StarnetGypsy]

Originally Posted by (sportman)

they should look deeper at the root cause of why all the countries around them hate them and take steps to fix that.


Now that is funny

... and valid

[(sportman)]

Absolutely no provocation from the Lebanese government or it's people.


Pretty much why the US calls the shots...
We state our intentions

[StarnetGypsy]

Originally Posted by Cheap Tipper

When I say that Israel have control of US politics, it has nothing to do with the American taxpayer. It has to do with the Israeli political lobby in the US, more powerful than drug companies, insurance, even oil and gas. Anyone who wants to become president of the USA has to be on board with the Israeli cause, or else they don't stand a chance. It's something called campaign contributions. Howard Dean was the last viable major candidate who didn't support Israel, and look what the media did to him.

better. i accept that

[Domer]

Originally Posted by Cheap Tipper

That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. I respect it. However, my personal opinion is that Hezbollah is not a terrorist organization, but valiant freedom fighters. Personally, I believe that it is Israel who are terrorizing the Palestinians.

No, Hitler was not my hero growing up. It is that kind of political rhetoric that is destroying the United States. Instead of having so many way out to left or way out to right wing, people need to intelligently debate issues in a respectful manner.

You think a whole country should be destroyed and you're taking issue with my "political rhetoric" and telling me I should debate this "respectfully"?

Hezbollah as freedom fighters....good one. I suppose their suicide bombers accidentally killed civilians. After all, they are valiant freedom fighters.

Do you agree with Hezbollah, Hamas, and Iran that the Holocaust did not actually happen? That it was faked by the Jews? This is what your brothers in arms all believe, and just one of many lies they teach their children in school.

[count zero]

If only we'd gone the isolationist route we'd be a happy and prosperous country today. No ordinary person benefits from globalism, only the rich. Who cares if we have cheap shit imported from China? Importers. Bidnissmen. No one else. How did we let a bunch of glorified merchants take control of our future? We had plenty of food and oil for ourselves to last indefinitely, if only we'd behaved sensibly and with an eye on the future. Let some sorry-ass fools kill themselves halfway around the world, why should we care?

It all comes down to having been governed by fools. We all knew they were fools 363 days a year, but somehow when we pulled the curtain in the voting booth we all of a sudden felt like we should take them seriously. Imagine where we'd be today if we'd been governed by wise men who could say no to being paid off by the oil companies and the defense industry, and lead on the basis of wisdom.

Now where are we at? Nuke millions of innocent people in some country we don't even give a shit about, whose only crime was to elect fools like we did?

I say tell them all to get fucked and clean up their own mess, and if they kill each other off, good riddance. And maybe in the process take the Cheneys and the Roves and the Bushes and put their miserable necks in a noose.