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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-23-2003, 08:41 PM
maria sharapova maria sharapova is offline
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Default that North Dakota Whale Fellow....

one man runs state racing???

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Old 07-23-2003, 08:47 PM
maria sharapova maria sharapova is offline
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think i blew the link thingy again. it's in the drf.com .
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Old 07-23-2003, 09:26 PM
maria sharapova maria sharapova is offline
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there should work now
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Old 07-23-2003, 10:02 PM
maria sharapova maria sharapova is offline
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apparently north dakota has no live racing as of yet,although they are
considering it. noticed company pays only 1% of handle to state racing coffers.
is that low??
state handle is $173 million,this fellow's handle alone is $160 million.
he sure does have them by the balls regarding pari-mutuel legislation
doesn't he?? Probably wrote it himself come to think of it.

man if this guy is betting one of your pet angles you can kiss your
advantage goodbye. He wouldn't much care,as even if the angle
started losing a few cents on the dollar,he can still do fine with
the rebate.he sure must reduce the number of good betting
opportunities at whatever tracks he's currently punting at.

I believe this is the gent who bought Benter's(hong kong legendary punter)
computer programs, no???

Doesn't seem very fair to the other punters paying full price.
plus is the track really better off,because in the end he is just
siphoning money out of the system with this advantage.
I'm sure this guy probably threatens to not bet if his rebates
are taken away,and apparently chose this state specifically
because they have little relative bargaining
power to negotiate with him.So the article intimates.
But from the producers pov,it would be better to have
that money out of Moby Dick's bank account and into
the hands of the other losing punter's who will churn it
back through the betting system in pursuit
of reasonable pari -mutuel enjoyment.
track does better financially in this scenario,no??

otoh,would be fun to bet $160 million in a year.

cheers

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Old 07-23-2003, 10:29 PM
maria sharapova maria sharapova is offline
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if you were wondering,like me,if this fellow has to actually live and bet
in North Dakota in order to legally do this- - -would seem like
a high compensatory cost - - - you can probably assume he doesn't
after reading this North Dakota statute related to pari-mutuel wagering.
to paraphrase "any bets made through a North Dakota BettingService,no
matter where the bets originate ,are considered under state law to
be place within the state"

told you he wrote the legislation.


Apparently this fellow lives in las vegas
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Old 07-23-2003, 11:16 PM
Holy Bull Holy Bull is offline
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He bets much more than $160 million a year. And he makes it much harder for guys like me, but the gap is getting smaller.
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Old 07-23-2003, 11:36 PM
maria sharapova maria sharapova is offline
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he must have made some sort of agreement with Benter,if Mr.Benter
did indeed sell him those golden computer programs/models etc.
For if even 2-3 other people were using these methods,the feedback
to market mechanism would surely cancel out the profitabilty of
his methods.
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Old 07-23-2003, 11:49 PM
The Actuary The Actuary is offline
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I have a hard time understanding exactly how this guy operates.
I find the, he has a better mousetrap theory, a tad naive, particularly given we're dealing with a system that is ripe for abuse.
Thanks for the link.
Just my opinion,
TA
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Old 07-24-2003, 01:43 AM
Holy Bull Holy Bull is offline
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Maria:
Even if he bought Bentner's program originally it wouldn't work here. I've heard a staff of 18 or so working for him [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
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Old 07-24-2003, 02:31 AM
Handyman Handyman is offline
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How the hell is the program gonna work here in the USA? Racing in HK and the USA are like apples and oranges...completely different.
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Old 07-24-2003, 06:16 PM
maria sharapova maria sharapova is offline
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yeah i heard Benter had heaps of staff as well.

As for the handicapping models working in the states,i'm sure they
can be adapted with mucho tinkering. But i have no direct
knowledge about how he operates either.one aspect that has
to be dealt with are the last minute calcs on how much his
wagering will affect prices.

I guess he can continue to obtain these rebates long as
there is no mass boycott by other punters. figure
that most players are not even aware some punters are
being offered rebates,and even those that are, will
hardly bother whinging about it,since it is not something
that is occuring right in front of their eyes.... i'm not
that familiar with poker,but i have hard time imagining
a hold'em game where 4 of the 5 players would
have say, 10% raked from a winning pot(i know this is high)
and the 5th player would only have 1% raked from his
winning pots. maybe there is a game like this at some
casino,what do i know.
Guess punters in the states should pressure tracks
for lower takeout.
What's with this american racing form btw.
It costs $5.00(partly due to no one bothering to advertise
in it)and there is zilch investigative journalism in its
pages.I would think stories, like the one mentioned
above would get more play,and more investigative
expository columns.
Toodle pip!!
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Old 07-24-2003, 08:00 PM
tzieley tzieley is offline
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The American version of the Racing Form (DRF) is indeed $5 a copy, and quite pricey, but one is paying for the past performance information and the exclusive ratings than are included and little else. Besides, I'd estimate that 10% of DRF's customers actually read the articles. Most of them simply take the pp's and throw the rest away.

In regards to the Racing Post (UK), it is a wayyyy more of a newspaper style tabloid than the DRF will ever be with investigative reporting, etc. (DRF would more likely be the racing industry's equivalent of Variety in show biz), and at £1 per copy (about $1.65 US) is as cheap as chips. However, the past performance information in the RP is almost useless. Absolute rubbish. One has to go to the website at www.racingpost.co.uk to retrieve decent pp info, or the Raceform. Forget Timeform. Their numbers are excellent, but for pp's? Forget it.

tzieley (want to hit a Canadian.......the bet that is)
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Old 07-24-2003, 10:52 PM
Dennis Dennis is offline
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This is really disturbing to me.

Many yrs ago there was this fellow that had a set up in Fla9Calder/Gulf I think where they allowed him a hook into parimutuels.
I saw pictures of his setup- it was like a war room with monitors and computers all over.
I had thought that they made him stop it there- I forget the reason.

The possibilities of what he can determine and do (at the last minute thru programming) boggles my mind.

D(go back 30yrs to dennis with a clipboard charting the action-unbelievable results(no handicapping needed))
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Old 07-24-2003, 11:47 PM
Dennis Dennis is offline
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When the odds on last year's Florida Derby winner Monarchos dropped two full points during the running of the race, it subsequently was learned that a large bettor with an arbitrage wagering program had been given special access to tote system information at a North Dakota OTB in order to place last minute wagers. While there was no evidence of past-posting, it was learned that final betting-cycle data is not transmitted until after the pool closes. The public doesn't see this change on the tote board until about 45 seconds later, well after a race has begun. For fans watching on television, there is another delay in the transmission of information from tote system, to production truck, to screen. None of this gives bettors the feeling that their wagers are secure.
Full article here-
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Old 07-25-2003, 12:11 AM
Holy Bull Holy Bull is offline
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There is absolutely nothing unkosher about what the guy does....he just kicks everyone asses.
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Old 07-25-2003, 12:38 AM
Inside The Pylons Inside The Pylons is offline
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unkosher?

Wow!

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
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Old 07-25-2003, 02:00 PM
The Actuary The Actuary is offline
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How can the guy arbitrage prices that fluctuate so wildly?
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Old 07-25-2003, 04:07 PM
Holy Bull Holy Bull is offline
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Simple answer: what he does is nothing remotely close to arbitrage
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Old 07-25-2003, 04:09 PM
The Actuary The Actuary is offline
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How can he bet into wildly fluctuating prices?

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