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Old 07-10-2003, 08:54 PM
Greedo Greedo is offline
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Default F**K OFF AND DIE ALL BREEDERS, you're killing this sport

"Sanan said that Vindication will be retired in December to Hill 'n' Dale Farms, near Lexington, regardless of whether he returns to racing this fall. Unbeaten in four starts, Vindication has earned $680,950. He was purchased for $2.15 million at the 2001 Saratoga yearling sale."

So even if he comes back and wins the bloody Classic, it's goodbye. and btw, Toccet's connections have said the exact same thing.

And we all know that all Empire Maker has to do is wake up one morning with even a single hair on his tail out of place and it's off to the breeding shed.

As well, any one that thinks Point Given wouldn't still be with us if not for breeding concerns is crazy too.

This is EXACTLY what is killing this sport.

We might as well just call it Horse Breeding...cause it sure as hell ain't about Horse Racing anymore.

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif[/img]
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Old 07-10-2003, 08:59 PM
Greedo Greedo is offline
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I can't even pick favorite horses to cheer for anymore as they're all retired about 6 months after any big effort as a two or three year old.

Screw everyone, from now on, the only two horses I cheer for are Perfect Drift and Funny Cide. They may not be the best or my favorites, but at least they'll be around for awhile.

f**k
f**k
f**k
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Old 07-10-2003, 10:24 PM
alysheba88 alysheba88 is offline
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Very true Greedo. I am all behind Funny Cide now., With a few exceptions like Lemon Drop Kid I have not really been attached to a colt or older horse since SS and Alysheba because of the nonsense you cited. I didnt appreciate Skip Away until too late. My favorite horses since then have tended to be filly sprinters and turf horses. Cause you know they will be around for a while.
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Old 07-10-2003, 10:35 PM
Holy Bull Holy Bull is offline
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Greedo,

I know we did this a while back, but can you imagine what the Classic would look like this year if horses ran till at least they are 6?
Point Given, Buddha, Medaglia, Mindshaft, Empire Maker, Funny Cide, Milwakee Brew, Perfect Drift, Tiznow, Giants Causeway, Sakhee, Moon Balad, Azeri, Congaree, Monarchos, Vindication, Toccet, and I'm sure I'm forgetting about a dozen. BTW, in that field Point Given is the 8-1 ML favorite and Empire would be about a 30-1 shot [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
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Old 07-10-2003, 11:03 PM
turkoman1963 turkoman1963 is offline
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It's really a tragedy how horses are retired so early. Remember the glory years when Seattle Slew faced Affirmed who ended up facing Spectacular Bid? Or Alysheba and Ferdinand? Those days are gone.

That's why I like UK racing because a lot of stars race in their 4 year old seasons...or more.
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Old 07-11-2003, 12:47 AM
doctrot doctrot is offline
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sure would be ironic ....if they managed to kill the golden goose........................
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Old 07-11-2003, 01:07 AM
alysheba88 alysheba88 is offline
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The real irony in it all to me, is how hit and miss breeding is. Look at some of the recent three year olds who captured two legs of the TC.

So many had ordinary breeding at best. For every FuPeg (know he only won one) there are three Real Quiet, Charismatics and Silver Charms. Same with the older horses.

The worst thing for racing is for any of the high priced horses to show promise and do anything on the track. The Skip Away, Silver Charms run longer cause of their ordinary breeding. Vindication, Point Given, Empire those horses will never ever see a 4 year old season again. Even War Emblem. How crazy was that purchase. What was it $36 million or something?

These owners overpay for these horses and are desperate to get what money they can out of them. God forbid they earn it on the track.

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Old 07-11-2003, 01:30 AM
bbob1972 bbob1972 is offline
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I agree Greedo..It is a shame.....But come on and get on the Perfect Drift bandwagon...there's plenty of room here but I am the driver for this ride........Bob......
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Old 07-11-2003, 03:39 PM
Mr Memory Mr Memory is offline
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Vindication won't stand sustained training . . . based on that
intelligence, trainer chose to take his shots early, and grind
out as much $$$ as he could . . . more life in the big city.
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Old 07-11-2003, 06:17 PM
tzieley tzieley is offline
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I refuse to call Horse Racing a sport, I simply call it entertainment.

With sports like Basketball and Baseball, the players play to win a championship. And when they do, they hunger for another one...and another one. There's the will to win instilled in them.

With Horse Racing, the owners may win a championship and 19 times out of 20 you'll never see the horse again as it's off to the breeding shed. Or the horse breaks the equivalent of a fingernail and off the track he/she goes. Or if the horse is really good and just misses an Eclipse, you rarely see the horse try again at 4 years of age because of the greed factor. Gimme a break.

tzieley (my opinion might be unpopular, but it's my opinion)

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Old 07-11-2003, 06:34 PM
Skanoochies Skanoochies is offline
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Tzieley, I think it`s a little bit of sport, alittle bit of entertainment, but a hell of a lot of business. As far as baseball and basketball goes, you don`t see a lot of fathers lining up their daughters in breeding sheds hoping to produce a Bonds or Jordan, so they just keep on playing till they get too old.

Have a good day.

Skanoochies.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
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Old 07-11-2003, 08:17 PM
Raisencain Raisencain is offline
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tzieley

i respect your opinion, but i will say i disagree on a few points. i believe it is a sport (and a great one at that, when in its purest form). also, the will to win that you speak about is there,.......it is inside the champion horse though, not the trainer/owner/breeder.

and while i agree with pretty much everyone here, in that it really sucks that so many great horses are taken away in their prime (some before they even reach there prime), we need to understand that this is a BIG business. when you have an incredible amount of money on the table, it is tough to turn that down for the good of the sport.

sad, but that is the way it goes sometimes.
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Old 07-12-2003, 04:52 AM
doctrot doctrot is offline
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the only will I see in most team sport players .....is the will to get a bigger contract .............I'll take the animals (horses) anyday
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Old 07-14-2003, 01:39 PM
maria sharapova maria sharapova is offline
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follow steeplechasing/Nh. With some luck,from the first novice hurdle
/ point-to-point, to the old geezer cap off, it could be 8-10 years.
But you do run an increased risk of seeing your favourite galloper
meet a ugly dispiriting end,that might cause you to question
your interest with the sport,and might lead to a temporary
cessation of involvement in same
But you will be back. you love it too much.
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Old 07-14-2003, 10:52 PM
SeattleSlew SeattleSlew is offline
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tzieley,

Greed is much greater in team sports, not even close..

Championships and loyalty come second to a player's contract or endorsements.

It's much harder being a fan in a salary-cap free environment where your favorite team might dump their entire lineup every year, than a horse who runs with his heart.

SLEW
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Old 07-14-2003, 11:11 PM
tzieley tzieley is offline
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You cannot discount the greed factor. Anytime you have dollars up for grabs, you'll have greed too. Can't escape that fact.

But with team sports, at least your team will still be there even though some of the faces may, or may not change. But when you're the fan of a horse, it is likely going to be a very limited time that you can root for him/her before heading to pasture. It's like being a fan of Sammy Sosa and he winds up playing for only 2 years before retiring.

tzieley (am an Expos fan.....the above paragraph doesn't apply)
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Old 07-20-2003, 12:48 AM
bbob1972 bbob1972 is offline
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Perfect Drift---This gelding toyed with the small field at Arlington today. Turned out be more like a workout for Drift. This gelding is the real deal folks and we don't have to worry about him retiring to stud....Hop on and we can ride this baby to the BC Classic winner circle.....Bob......
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Old 07-24-2003, 08:36 PM
Greedo Greedo is offline
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The hits, they just keep on coming

Announced already to be retired at year's end:

Toccet
Vindication (no matter what happens in any attempted comeback...which is looking less and less likely everyday, I might add)
Posse (and I love this quote from his connections, "and we think the racing public and fans of Posse are going to have a lot of fun with him for the rest of the year,".....YOU'VE ARROGANT PRICK...as if you're doing us a favor ALLOWING us to cheer for your horse for 3 more months...gee...thanks alot.)

Teetering on the edge

Congaree (that Met Mile and Gold Cup double just killed any chance of him coming back)
Empire Maker (as said before...one whisker out of place and he's gone)

ALREADY OUT

Choisir...winner of the King's Stand (II) and the Golden Jubilee (I) sprints at royal ascot and 2nd in the July Cup...I'd just like to point out here that this horse was retired...IN THE MIDDLE OF HIS 3 YEAR OLD YEAR!!!! Not at the end, not because of injury...but right smack dab in the middle. Even from these jokers in the breeding world, this was a bit much for me to take

And lest anyone decides to start getting excited about this year's two year olds, I will remind all that 50% of Cuvee was just sold to Spendthrift Farm and it's partners. Guess we know who not to cheer for for next year's derby already.

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Old 07-24-2003, 08:54 PM
Holy Bull Holy Bull is offline
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And these same people whine and whine about how the horseman and breeders never get their share of the money.
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