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Old 06-23-2003, 07:12 PM
Holy Bull Holy Bull is offline
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Default Breeders' Cup to belmont in 2k5, why?!?!


I know I'm going to get heat from Aly about this but why do the BC people keep awarding more BC's to Belmont? The attendance is the lowest when it is there, the classic starts on the turn, the weather is questionable which leads to a boggy turf course and sloppy biased dirt course. Also I was at the last one at Belmont, and except for Tiznow in the classic, there was just no energy in the air. It was like it was a typical wednesday at the track. They do great with the Triple Crown, but why not give the BC to a place where it will actually be an event and not just another day?



It's Official: 2005 Breeders' Cup to Belmont Park
Date Posted: 6/23/03 12:10:37 PM
Last Updated: 6/23/03 12:17:49 PM



Edited from NTRA, Breeders' Cup reports
Officials of the National Thoroughbred Racing Association and Breeders' Cup Limited have reached an agreement in principle with the New York Racing Association making Belmont Park in Elmont, N.Y., the host site for the 2005 Breeders' Cup World Thoroughbred Championships. The 22nd running of the Breeders' Cup, consisting of eight races with purses and awards totaling $14 million, will be run at Belmont Park on Saturday, October 29, 2005 and will be televised live by NBC Sports.
"We are delighted to reunite with the New York Racing Association and Belmont Park for the 2005 World Thoroughbred Championships," said NTRA bice chairman and Breeders' Cup president D.G. Van Clief, Jr. "The NYRA team has helped produce some of our most successful events, none more so than the 2001 Breeders' Cup, run in the aftermath of the tragedy of September 11. Working with city and state agencies, NYRA management and staff did an exemplary job staging an extraordinary event that raised more than $2 million for the families of those affected by 9/11."

"The New York Racing Association is pleased and proud to welcome back the Breeders' Cup World Thoroughbred Championships," said Barry K. Schwartz, chairman of the Board and CEO of NYRA. "Belmont Park is a fitting site in its 100th anniversary season to showcase the best of Thoroughbred racing, as it has done throughout its first century. New Yorkers showed their strong support of Breeders' Cup Championship Day in the wake of the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center in 2001. We are thrilled to offer New York racing fans in particular and racing fans worldwide the opportunity to enjoy this outstanding day of international racing at Belmont Park once again."

This will be the fifth time that The New York Racing Association has hosted the Breeders' Cup World Thoroughbred Championships and the fourth time that the event will be contested at Belmont Park. The Breeders' Cup was previously held at Belmont in 1990, 1995 and in 2001. NYRA hosted the1985 Breeders' Cup at Aqueduct Racetrack.

In addition to the NYRA tracks, during its 19-year history the Breeders' Cup also has been held at Churchill Downs in Kentucky, Hollywood Park and Santa Anita Park in California, Gulfstream Park in Florida and Woodbine in Ontario, Canada. This year's Breeders' Cup will be run on October 25 during the Oak Tree Meeting at Santa Anita Park. The 2004 Breeders' Cup will be run at Lone Star Park in the Dallas suburb of Grand Prairie, Texas.
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Old 06-23-2003, 07:19 PM
alysheba88 alysheba88 is offline
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Won't take any heat from me.

I haven't gone to any of the BC Belmonts. May go in 2005.

They don't deserve it again. For all the reasons you cited.

BC Preview day is a great day of racing too. And the weather is usually very good. Yet they get around 14,000-15,000 people at most. A disgrace.

I love going to Belmont but its a shame the way no one goes to it except of course the day of the Belmont.

If they were going to give it to an East Coast track they should have given in to Monmouth. Guarantee you the crowd and excitement would be there. Their cards SUCK now and yet their attendance comes close to doubling Belmont on a weekend

I wouldnt mind if they just had it at Churchill every year.
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Old 06-23-2003, 07:43 PM
The Actuary The Actuary is offline
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It's sad that GSP never got a BC before it shut down,
granted the state of racing was in complete disarray most of the time it was open.

The facility itself was a true testament to the 80's era of over indulgence. A magnificent structure in every way, shape and form.

Plus, there is a substantial racing population south of NY and north of MD,
it's embarrassing the lack of substantive stakes/big horses appearing in this area at anytime or place.

TA
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Old 06-23-2003, 08:30 PM
Holy Bull Holy Bull is offline
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I'm interested to see how lone star does next year. Monmouth isn't a bad idea though not sure how many they can hold? There's really no shortage of deserving sites. Hollywood, Santa Anita, Churchill all do great jobs. Gulfstream and Woodbine seemed to handle it well. Still think Arlington was too small a facility. Not sure this could ever work, but a BC at Saratoga would be the ultimate.
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Old 06-24-2003, 12:12 AM
rockingham rockingham is offline
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I think some of the tracks like Del Mar and others are unable to host the event because of the configuration of the turf course. I like the idea of "spreading the wealth" to various sites that are able to host the Breeders Cup in all major markets, if possible. Personally, I like this event much better on television, I haven't found it to be that great in person.
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Old 06-24-2003, 01:19 AM
maria sharapova maria sharapova is offline
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It might be better off if they held a greyhound breeder's
cup on some turf courses of the tracks mentioned here.
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Old 06-24-2003, 09:27 AM
Mr Memory Mr Memory is offline
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'Cause of their seating capacity . . . the fact it's in New York . . .
and the weather makes it fair for the Eurpoeans . . . some fans
may like it when it's in Fla or Cal, but the weather isn't fair
to the shippers from across ye olde ponde . . .
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Old 06-24-2003, 11:39 AM
alysheba88 alysheba88 is offline
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When Point Given ran in the Haskell Monmouth got 47K or thereabouts. For the BC I can see them fitting in 55,000. Which isn't much less than what Belmont gets (or above it in some cases).

Would be a tight fit but that would make it a louder and more enthusiastic atmosphere.

There has been talk of the Meadowlands too, and even a possible night Breeders Cup but I think thats a bad idea.

Its a shame Delmar couldnt host it.

I know there is no comparison in track ambience, but I would give it to Aqueduct before Belmont again. Just to be different.
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Old 06-24-2003, 01:58 PM
alysheba88 alysheba88 is offline
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I also think that takeout for all BC bets should be 10%. Across the board on everything. Really make the day special
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Old 06-24-2003, 04:41 PM
Mr Memory Mr Memory is offline
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Neither Dmr's or Mth's grass courses are nearly wide enough . . .
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Old 06-24-2003, 06:18 PM
Greedo Greedo is offline
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I'm all for letting Woodbine have it again. We did a great job the first time. Plus the Euro's love our turf course.
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Old 06-24-2003, 08:11 PM
The Actuary The Actuary is offline
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Greedo, they going to put them in the right posts next time?[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

TA(still fuming over Paying Dues)
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Old 06-24-2003, 08:16 PM
Holy Bull Holy Bull is offline
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TA:
I completely forgot about Paying Dues. Hadn't thought about that in years, but now am pissed about it again [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
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Old 06-24-2003, 09:52 PM
tzieley tzieley is offline
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Holy Bull:
You couldn't possibly expect a whole lot of energy to have taken place at Belmont for the 2001 BC did you? You cannot compare a bunch of stupid horse races to nearly 3000 deaths just 7 weeks earlier...in the same city no less. Never mind the fact that not only was everyone still in some type of mourning, but you had to go through checkpoints that made you feel like you were in a warzone (well, maybe you were). The '01 BC was an aberration and should be discounted.

In regards to your attendance quote that it is always lowest in NY, there is some truth to that but consider this:

Average all-time Belmont BC attendance (3 cups): 47,156
Average all-time Gulfstream all-time attendance (3 cups): 47,293 (+137)
Source: NTRA

Gulfstream's figures are just as low, but it doesn't mean that Florida's never gonna see another BC.

And your statement about the weather leaves out something. It's questionable ANYTIME it's run outside of California. Consider this:

Amount of BC's run over non-fast tracks: Two (1988 CD - Muddy, 1995 BEL - Muddy)
Amount of BC's run over non-firm turf courses: Seven.....Belmont (2), Gulfstream (2), CD, AP, WO.
Coldest average temperature at a BC event: NY 53.25į, KY 55į
Coldest temperature recorded: Tie between Bel & CD at 43į

If we were to consider weather, then Churchill would get the heave-ho like New York would. But yet, CD has had the 4 highest BC attendance figures ever and 5 of the top 6.

You also have to consider European entrants which prefer cooler weather. Yes they come over when they run in FL or CA, but if you always ran the BC in a warm weather environment, then you would see far fewer of them ship over. What would be the point of shipping year after year when you're always guaranteed to be at a disadvantage?

True New York could do better attendance wise, but they still put on a very good show. And it gives the Europeans a possible chance to have the weather on their side.

In regards to attendance during regular dates, that is true that it's rather anemic. But when every single house/apartment that has regular, basic cable in New York City and Long Island gets the NYRA signal for "free", it makes it less appetizing to battle the traffic and elements to see the exact same races that you could watch in your cozy living room 7 days a week.

tzieley (and you thought that Aly was gonna give you flack)
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Old 06-24-2003, 10:54 PM
Holy Bull Holy Bull is offline
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Maybe I'm just holding the last 2 against Belmont where no one showed up, the track was biased beyond belief, and the day seemed to lose its luster. The BC should be an event...like the super bowl...like the final 4...etc, not just a day where they run some nice races and a decent amount of people show up. At belmont, it is not. If you want to try and blame it on 9/11, go ahead, but next time it is there, I doubt much will change. 45k will show up and no one in NY will care.
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Old 06-24-2003, 11:05 PM
Skanoochies Skanoochies is offline
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Hold it in Europe for a change and see how many horses from N A. ship over there. Besides it would be nice to see some new venues for a change.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
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Old 06-25-2003, 01:29 AM
maria sharapova maria sharapova is offline
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running the breeder's cup in europe is pretty much a no hoper
for the time being.there are no truly international style tracks
at the moment in uk i believe( not quite sure),.Of the all weathers
(not exactly the same as american dirt) that also possess
grass flat courses you have Wolverhampton & Southwell(not sure
of recent changes) wolverhampton's alright but a Breeder's Cup?!
Maybe in Cuckoo Cloudland.
France does have a few venues that possess multiple options.
Cagnes sur mer on the cote d' azur has about 3 chasing/nh courses
a grass flat course,an all weather,and a harness oval.But why
bother as the French have pretty much abandoned attending
live racing-- that crowd on Arc Day at Longchamp is at least
50% English Blokes-- only the summer at Deauville draws a
consistent crowd and see above explanation to see what
nationality makes up a good portion of it.
Probably the biggest obstacle would be the time dif,as uk is
5 hours ahead of east coast america time.don't forget the latitude
( or is it longitude??) starts getting dark by late afternoon at
the end of October.
nice thought though,but decades away for sure.

Sorry about the margins.didn't look that sloppy when i posted it.
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Old 06-25-2003, 01:53 AM
Holy Bull Holy Bull is offline
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They can rename it the World Thoroughbred Championships all they want, but it is still a North American championship event. 5 of the 8 races are still on dirt. It shouldn't really be in europe. Maybe Stronach can get Pimlico together to give the East Coast another viable site?
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Old 06-25-2003, 02:01 AM
Skanoochies Skanoochies is offline
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Thank you Maria, interesting facts. Have a good day.

Skanoochies.
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