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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2002, 02:45 PM
hatbox hatbox is offline
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Default of those that won 2 of 3 which would have been worthy triple crown winners

In my opinion Sunday Silence and maybe Silver Charm
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Old 08-19-2002, 02:53 PM
alysheba88 alysheba88 is offline
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Agree on both of those.

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Old 08-19-2002, 05:31 PM
Holy Bull Holy Bull is offline
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My 3 would be:
Man O War - would have won it had he enterred all three.
Native Dancer - had a horrendoes trip in the Derby almost getting knocked down on the first turn and almost pulled off the alyshebescent recovery. Was the only race he ever lost, ending 21 for 22.
Spectacular Bid - one of the best 5 horses of all time but couldn't overcome a pin and a bonehead jockey

I really don't see the argument of Silver Charm, Sunday Silence, Point Given etc, they just flat out got beat.
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Old 08-19-2002, 05:37 PM
alysheba88 alysheba88 is offline
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I think the argument about Sunday Silence and Silver Charm is that they ultimately proved to be very very good horses, if not great. Where some feel that a Real Quiet for example would not have been a "worthy" Triple Crown winner due the competition and Beyers he was running.

Certainly no one came closer than Real Quiet. Can still vividly remember that race. Was glad to be there in person.
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Old 08-19-2002, 06:05 PM
Holy Bull Holy Bull is offline
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Other than a Beyer point or 2 and longetivity, I don't really see any difference in Real Quiet and Silver Charm.

Both just got beat by a better horse that day in the Belmont.
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Old 08-19-2002, 06:09 PM
alysheba88 alysheba88 is offline
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I think Silver Charm went on to more success as a older horse than Real Quiet. I don't have all the numbers in front of me though. Worth looking into.

Can definitely see your point though. I mean I know the whole Triple Crown is based on what you do as a three year old. But I think other factors (like record before and after the TC) influence peoples thoughts on the past, rightly or wrongly.
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Old 08-21-2002, 01:05 AM
SeattleSlew SeattleSlew is offline
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Silver Charm (post-Belmont): Winner of The San Fernando, Strub, Dubai World Cup, Kentucky Cup Classic, Goodwood, Clark, San Pasqual. Second in the Malibu, Stephen Foster, BC Classic (by a combined two lengths). Third in the Donn and Santa Anita Handicap (beaten by Free House).

Real Quiet (post-Belmont): Winner of The Hollywood Gold Cup, Pimlico Special (beat Free House by a neck). Second in New Orleans Handicap and Texas Mile. Third in the Mass 'Cap.

I think Real Quiet was on his way to becoming a good older horse as his last race was also his fastest ever (Hollywood Gold Cup). In his last 5 races he was 2-2-1, and might have had a more comparative career to Silver Charm if he had kept running...

As for the Belmont itself;
It's very close, but I give the nod to Silver Charm. Not convinced Touch Gold was better on that day, just a very good strategy implemented.

One could obviously make the argument Real Quiet was moved too early by Kent D...

SLEW
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Old 08-21-2002, 01:08 AM
SeattleSlew SeattleSlew is offline
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By the way my list of the best 2 for 3 horses...

1. Spectacular Bid
2. Northern Dancer
3. Point Given
4. Silver Charm

SLEW
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Old 08-21-2002, 02:24 AM
Greedo Greedo is offline
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the BID, PG, and of course the greatest stallion ever, the beautifully named Northern Dancer
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Old 08-21-2002, 04:57 AM
Holy Bull Holy Bull is offline
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Guess Man O War shouldn't have lost that 1 race vs. Upset
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Old 08-21-2002, 02:56 PM
The Actuary The Actuary is offline
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The bid is truly spectactular today was one of my favorite all time calls, IMHO from the horses mentioned he clearly is the most worthy. I'm not familiar with the entire list, but SS and SC both impressed me alot more then RQ.
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Old 08-21-2002, 05:47 PM
SeattleSlew SeattleSlew is offline
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Holy Bull, I was going for horses that had actually run in the TC series and won 2 out of the 3 jewels....
Yes, Man O' War was one of, if not THE greatest thoroughbred to ever reside in this country.....you aren't going to get much of an argument there.

SLEW
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Old 08-22-2002, 03:49 AM
Holy Bull Holy Bull is offline
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Man O War won the preakness and the belmont, didn't run in the derby.
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Old 08-22-2002, 03:44 PM
SeattleSlew SeattleSlew is offline
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I had thought the Preakness was the race Upset 'upset' him (Upset actually finished second in that race)...and it was actually a 6f race at Saratoga, where Man O' War was turned around backwards when they raised the flag he was defeated....
Between the Preakness and Belmont he ran and set an American Record for the mile - in the Belmont he faced only one challenger....

he should be there, for sure Bull..

SLEW

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Old 08-22-2002, 05:07 PM
guidoS guidoS is offline
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Slew;
I'm reading the form for Man O' War, the Sanford was 8/13/19 at Saratoga...do u know if that was before using starting gates? (u said he was turned around?) my book says he was off slowly but only 1.5 lengths behind at the half, and since he only beat Upset by 1.5 in the Preakness, it sounds like he was really beaten that day....but it sounds like you know more about the story than i do!

ps. Man O' War won the Lawrence Realization at Belmont (1+5/8ths) by 100 lengths....and the form says "restrained at end"
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Old 08-22-2002, 05:10 PM
guidoS guidoS is offline
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hey how bout Charismatic? a 62,500 claimer in february and possibly a triple crown in june if he hadn't been injured in the belmont?

ps. and i cashed a ticket for 3230$ in the derby on him....my biggest win to date!
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Old 08-22-2002, 05:53 PM
SeattleSlew SeattleSlew is offline
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Guido, yes it was before they had starting gates; he was still circling when the other horses took off and lost several lengths in the process (in a 6 furlong race, by the way).....he made up ground and passed every horse except for UPSET (who carried several pounds less)....as Bull mentioned, his only defeat...

He defeated Upset every time he faced him except for that ONE race (I think they raced 7 times total)...

SLEW
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Old 08-22-2002, 07:17 PM
Holy Bull Holy Bull is offline
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My top 5 of all time:
1. Citation
2. Man O War
3. Secretariat
4. Spectacular Bid
5. Forego
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Old 08-22-2002, 08:09 PM
alysheba88 alysheba88 is offline
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1. Saarland
2. Dollar Bill
3. Jacques Who
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