occurence at Taj poker table

[Bobby C]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>In this case, would this player be allowed to fold her hand if after she dislosed her cards and after others did the same and now she sees that she is beaten by another hand?</end quote></div>

Absolutely.

If the players who turned their cards up don't like it, they should've waited until the betting was complete. THEY are responsible to protect their hand--they can't blame the lady with the button, and they can't blame the dealer.

Here is what should have happened:

When people started the showing down hands before the action was complete, someone should've pointed this out to the dealer. "Hang on, she hasn't acted yet!" At that point, the floor should've been called. When the floor arrived, he should've instructed the lady with the button to act: fold, call, or raise. Proceed from there.


<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>No limit holdem, there's lots of action before the flop, comes back to the big blind, he goes all in and then lays his two aces face up on the table before anyone else has a chance to act after his all in bet.</end quote></div>

Two answers to this one:

CASH GAME: As long as he showed his cards before anyone called or folded to his raise, perfectly legal and acceptable. His actions pose no harm to others.

TOURNAMENT: There is a different rule for tournaments, because the outcome of the hand affects people not involved in the pot--especially when we all move up one rung on the prize ladder if someone gets knocked out. So in a tourney, I would use the warning/penalty/ejection plan. If it's the first time he's done something like this in our cardroom, a warning is almost always sufficient.

[drunkguy]

was reminded this when I was recently re-reading Super System

Doyle has a part in there where, after the river, he says that he will sometimes flip his hand over to try to get a read on his opponent...if they show any kind of emotion that should tell him whether to call or fold

so clearly exposing your cards to the table is not unheard of, when you are the last to act

[Minnow]

Wasn't it also Doyle who said he never looks at the cards when the flop is laid out, but rather at the players faces to gauge their reactions to the flop? Makes sense to me!

[jayhawk]

I agree with evertyhing Bobby said up till this point.



"Two answers to this one:

CASH GAME: As long as he showed his cards before anyone called or folded to his raise, perfectly legal and acceptable. His actions pose no harm to others. "


Especially the acceptable part, while it may not be illegal it is against all poker etiquette. If you are showing your cards everytime they are dealt you might have an argument that it is acceptable but if not there is a chance you are soft playing certain opponents and that is not acceptable.

[jayhawk]

I would have to check but I think in Super System 2 Brunsen edited the part about showing his hole cards.

[JamesUS527]

Well, this would make me very uncomfortable, but the consensus seems to be as follows: if you are in a cash game (as I stated in the original setting--not talking about tournaments here), are last to act after the river and have decided to either call or fold (not raise), then the optimal strategy would be to just show your cards -- if people muck their hands or show their cards in a showdown, so be it. If you are beaten by another, just throw your cards into the middle with no need to call the bet. And you may pick up some visual information from the other players as they react your disclosed hand. If the dealer then stops the action and asks you to act, you have the benefit of all this information before acting. I am very surprised this is not done more often if it is not against the rules as all the expert posters maintain.

As I say, I am very uncomfortable acting in this manner and it is not because of etiquette. I have seen such play at Binions where the dealer called the player's hand dead, but I bow to the consensus, if those are the rules, then that's that.