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Old 09-07-2003, 10:31 PM
hockeystl hockeystl is offline
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Default DLH/Mosely. Thoughts ??

Figured I'd get a thread going on DLH/Mosely.

Would like to hear some thoughts.
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Old 09-07-2003, 10:34 PM
THUMPER THUMPER is offline
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DLH by dec. This one will go to the cards either way.
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Old 09-08-2003, 05:31 PM
Oddessa Oddessa is offline
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I opened DLH -140 and got pounded all the way up to -225. I guess Stations opened -300 and got bet down to the present number as well. I felt the fight was a PK when I opened and I still do. Slight edge for DLH in judging bc of Arum, but don't be suprised if Shane retires him. I am thinking we will see a majority decision or majority draw. But I am routing for Mosely something fierce. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
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Old 09-09-2003, 04:00 AM
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-140 and +220, a scalper's wet dream.
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Old 09-10-2003, 02:32 PM
BillDozer BillDozer is offline
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what are the best prices the fight will NOT go the distance or under 11.5??


anyone?
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Old 09-10-2003, 06:18 PM
Oddessa Oddessa is offline
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OLYM is using 10.5 O -260/+220
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Old 09-11-2003, 03:10 PM
hockeystl hockeystl is offline
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I'm also inclined to go with DLH (but not at -225). I think DLH will be stronger than Mosely at 154, which should make it a little different fight than the first one. Mosely had the ND at his only fight at 54.

If you subscribe to the Follow the $$ logic, it's a no-brainer for DLH. A win by DLH sets up all kinds of possibilities. The most attractive being Trinidad and Hopkins IMO.

Anyone else's thoughts on the different weight?
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Old 09-11-2003, 05:30 PM
Oddessa Oddessa is offline
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I have to agree the weight is probably the biggest factor outside of Arum. I see this as a 7-5 fight either way. I think the price is entirely too inflated now, -270 at some spots. Mosely has beat him 2x already. Does he have his number? I think the right number here is still -140 to -160 tops. I am going with Mosely. Some fighters just match up well with each other and this is one of those matchups. I think Mosely looks great and his speed will overcome DLH's size in the late rounds. Oscar will have his skates on.
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Old 09-11-2003, 10:22 PM
gradysfalcon gradysfalcon is offline
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Mosley Ready to Prove De La Hoya Wrong

By TIM DAHLBERG
AP Boxing Writer





LAS VEGAS (AP) -- Shane Mosley looks at Oscar De La Hoya and sees a fighter who always picks opponents carefully.

When the two first met in June 2000, Mosley believes, De La Hoya thought he was getting a smaller opponent who had moved up two weight classes a bit too quickly.

When they meet in a rematch Saturday night, Mosley knows he's being looked at as damaged goods because he hasn't won his last three fights.

De La Hoya was wrong the first time, when Mosley pulled off an upset. And Mosley vows to prove him wrong again.

"It's kind of like he waits to fight a guy when he is vulnerable," Mosley said. "What they don't know is I'm not vulnerable now. I'm at my strongest right now. They picked the wrong time."

Oddsmakers aren't so sure, making Mosley a 2-1 underdog even though he outboxed and outpunched De La Hoya to win a split decision in their first meeting, which was at 147 pounds.

That might be because they see what De La Hoya must see. Mosley hasn't won a fight in more than two years, and he's fighting for only the second time at 154 pounds, a weight class De La Hoya showed he is comfortable and strong in by beating Fernando Vargas.

"I guess they figured my self esteem has probably dropped," Mosley said. "What they don't know is that is has strengthened me. I'll always feel like I'm the best, no matter what."

For a time, Mosley had good reason to feel that way. After beating De La Hoya at his own game, he picked up some easy money fighting fringe contenders. All the time, he was waiting for a big-money rematch that never came.

Still, Mosley was on top of the world, just waiting to be anointed boxing's next superstar.

Then Vernon Forrest came along, and some in boxing - De La Hoya included - don't believe Mosley has been the same since.

Forrest upset Mosley in their first fight, then won a close rematch last year. Mosley has fought only once since then, moving up to 154 pounds for a bout with Raul Marquez that ended with a no-contest in the third round Marquez was cut by head butts.

"Sometimes your confidence level tends to go down after not winning three fights," De La Hoya said. "I'm sure Mosley will be physically ready. Mentally, it will be interesting to see how he reacts in that ring."

Mosley's father and trainer, Jack, thinks his son will react just fine.

"His confidence has not been shaken at all," the senior Mosley said. "This is a chance for Shane to do what he does best and prove to people who's the best out there."

Mosley's confidence level can be debated, but one thing that definitely went down was his purse for the rematch. He is guaranteed $4.5 million and had to threaten not to fight to get De La Hoya to agree to give him an additional $500,000 if Mosley wins.

The purse is less than he made to fight De La Hoya the first time, while De La Hoya will be guaranteed $12.5 million and could make a lot more if the pay-per-view sales do as well as expected.

"It doesn't bother me to see Oscar making the money he's making," Mosley said. "It bothers me that I don't make the money I should be making."

De La Hoya, of course, is the attraction no matter who he fights. He holds the record for pay-per-view sales for a non-heavyweight fight - 1.3 million for his fight with Felix Trinidad - and drew more than 900,000 buys for his knockout of Fernando Vargas in September 2002.

Total revenues for De La Hoya's fights over his career are approaching half a billion dollars, and Saturday night's fight at the MGM Grand easily sold out 16,274 tickets at prices up to $1,200. Another 30,000 people are expected to watch on closed circuit at various Las Vegas hotels, while the pay-per-view buys are expected to rival those of the Vargas fight.

"Oscar has to fight somebody that the press perceives has a chance to beat him to have a huge fight," promoter Bob Arum said. "And Shane is perceived to be one of those fighters."

Mosley is perceived that way largely because styles make fights. Mosley was frustrated by a taller, awkward Forrest, but he was able to use his speed to beat De La Hoya the first time.

Mosley knows he let a chance to capitalize on his win over De La Hoya fade away, and he's determined not to make the same mistake. He has a new promoter and publicist and no longer has to worry about outside distractions.

With a smile as dazzling as his speed, Mosley only needs to look at De La Hoya to see that a fighter can rebound from losses to be bigger than ever.

"I was a superstar, and I still am a superstar," Mosley said. "That's why people are coming in to see this fight.

"I just don't get paid like one."

Copyright 2003 Associated Press. All rights reserved.


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Old 09-12-2003, 12:53 AM
smokey smokey is offline
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Going with De La Hoya by decision
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Old 09-12-2003, 04:00 PM
Oddessa Oddessa is offline
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SHADY ass judge in there now. Damn I can't take another Tua Rahman repeat robbery. Anek Hongtongkam from Thailand is 1 of 3 judges. He's a real cok suker............cost me on Castillo/Mayweather I. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

Joe Cortez is ref. No complaints there. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
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Old 09-12-2003, 04:05 PM
Oddessa Oddessa is offline
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Grabbed this off another site today. This guy said you 'you heard it here first'............not if you read Major Wager. I said the same on the 8th. Maybe he reads MW........LOL.



De La Hoya-Mosley: Will it be Redemption or Repeat?



by Jim "Boxadamus" De Pierro

12.09 - It is not often that a fight comes along where I will gladly part with $50 to see a night of fistic entertainment. Every hardocre boxing fan knows the pain of shelling out ridiculous PPV money only to be stuck with the cable bill at the end of the month. Even though I am about the biggest boxing nut on the planet I am a notorious tightwad when it comes to buying PPV matches. With most PPV matches I would rather wait a week and see the main event for free on HBO or Showtime.

The last time I saw a PPV fight that was worth every penny was Fernando Vargas against Felix Trinidad. I will admit even the great Boxadamus has gotten burned with his money a time or two on boxing matches that in retrospect he shouldn't have paid for. I actually ordered the Holmes-Butterbean fight last year and to top it off I purchased that Fist Full of Dollars tournament that would have been more aptly named Thunderjoke. Thunderjoke might have been barely worth the $20 if my favorite fighter Derrick Jefferson didn't get screwed by Eugena Williams and company in his fight against Anthony Thompson. My dream match up would be a 10 round main event fight of Derrick Jefferson vs. Tony "the Tiger" Thompson so Jefferson can get some vengeance. If anybody from Jefferson's or Thompson's promotional company is reading this column I would implore you to make this match up. Enough of my rant on Thunderjoke. Delahoya-Mosley stands a good chance of being fight of the year for 2003.

Stevie Johnston 35-2-1 (17 KOs) vs. Juan Lazcano 32-2-1 (24 KOs)

In my opinion Stevie Johnston is still the uncrowned lightweight champion of the world. I personally scored Johnston's two fights with Castillo in Johnston's favorby a razor thin margin on both occasions although technically Johsnton is 0-1-1 on the official ledger against Castillo. Johnston is still one of the best lightweights in the world and I must say I am a little surprised that Johnston is listed as about a +150 the underdog in this fight according to the oddsmakers.

As for Juan Lazcano, I am not impressed. Juan Lazcano may be a top ranked contender but in my book he is nothing but a pretender waiting to get exposed. I will admit I maybe a little irrational in my opinion on Lazcano but I was there in person in the Mohegun Sun when Lazcano fought Jesse James Leija and let me tell you that official result of that fight was an outright lie. Leija should have been given that decision by a wide margin. That fight left a bad taste in my throat literally. I booed that decision so loudly my voice was hoarse for a few days after that fight.

I give Lazcano the edge in the power department and his 4" height advantage could potentially give Johnston problems as Johsnton had a very hard time in his first fight against the much taller Caesar Bazan. Even so Lazcano isn't the biggest puncher that Johnston has been in with and I think Johnston's experience should more than make up for whatever obstacles Lazcano presents. I don't see Lazcano winning more than three rounds against the former champion. Lazcano I think will have trouble with Johnston's southppaw stance.

Stevie Johnston UD over Juan Lazcano


Oscar Delahoya 36-2 (29 KOs) vs. Shane Mosley 38-2-0-1 NC (35 KOs)

Shane Mosley is the only man IMO to have really beaten Delahoya. Detractors of the Golden Boy love to paint him as a phony and say he was given gift decisions over Pernel Whitaker and Ike Quartey and of course they will point to his marathon like performance against Felix Trinidad. No other present day fighter has won belts in 5 different weight divisions. To say Oscar Delahoya is a phony or a chicken only goes to show ones ignorance. Only a punchdrunk formerfighter who has had one to many punches to the head and are envious because they never accomplished anything in their sorry excuse for a career would make such a claim. Most real fighters I think respect Delahoya for his accomplishments and fame. The only fighter who has a legitimate right to gripe about Oscar is Winky Wright. After beating Vargas, Mosley and Wright were really the only worthy contenders out there to fight. For those of you who like to say Oscar is ducking Winky let me ask you this. Who would you rather pay to watch fight Shane Mosley or Winky Wright. I think the answer is obvious, Mosley would win in a landslide. I respect Winky Wright and his skills. Wright deserves the chance to prove me wrong but I think he would lose on points to either Oscar or Shane.

As for Oscar's four closest fights ending in points here is how I saw each fight. I really don't see how anyone can make a case for Pernell Whitaker as being the deserving victor. I will say this for Sweet Pea, he fought an excellent defensive fight and made Delahoya look bad but I don't think he provided enough offense to say he was robbed. It takes more than landing pity pat jabs when the other guy is throwing and landing hooks to say you won the fight.

Against Ike Quartey I think a good case could be made for Quartey but for me the 12th round where Delahoya put Quartey on the seat of his pants sealed the deal for Delahoya being declared the legitimate winner. Regardless. Delahoya-Quartey was for the most part a boring fight not worth arguing over.

I can't say I exactly respect the way Delahoya fought the last four rounds against Trinidad but the fact of the matter is that he did enough during the first eight rounds that barring a knockdown or a knockout, which Tito didn't score he should have been awarded the fight. I really think that had Delahoya been declared the victor that night against Trinidad nobody outside of Puerto Rico and Don King would argue that Trinidad won that fight.

Going into the first fight with Shane Mosley I thought at the time Delahoya was a little too big and strong for Mosley who at the time I didn't think was quite good enough to become welterweight champion of the world in the same division as Oscar Delahoya. Mosley-Delahoya one was really two 6 round fights where Oscar looked the stronger of the two earlier on as he was breaking Mosley down. In the second half of the fight from round 6 and on Mosley switched tactics and by the 12th round was bloodying the Golden Boy with sharp crisp combinations. Mosley won the fight largely because he won the later rounds more convincingly than Delahoya won the earlier rounds.

I think both fighters will turn in a performance to be proud of Saturday night. I don't believe for a second that their is anything wrong with Delahoya's left wrist. Even though it is Oscar and Shane who will be trading punches the real battle of pride will take place with the respective trainer of each fighter. Floyd Mayweather Sr. made the comment that Jack Mosley doesn't know jack to which I think Jack Mosley had a pretty witty retort of Floyd doesn't know Jack or Floyd in reference to Floyd Mayweather Sr. estranged relationship with his son and current WBC lightweigh champ Floyd Mayweather jr. It is kind of ironic but Oscar Delahoya with his praise of his current trainer is more of a son to Mayweather Sr. than Floyd Mayweather Jr. I think both are excellent trainers but Jack Mosley is a little more level headed and is a slightly better trainer IMO than Mayweather who is to egotistical for his own good. I will say this though. If Oscar Delahoya emerges victorious Saturday night Mayweather will stand a good chance of being trainer of the year for 2003.

I really comes down to who wants it more. Shane Mosley is being vastly overlooked by the general public. Mosley hasn't won a fight in his last three outing which I think is leading a lot of people to think that Delahoya is going to emerge victorious this time. To me that just means he is even hungrier than he was before. The odds favoring ODLH are ridiculous and almost completely ignore the results of the first fight. One must also consider that Mosley also holds a victory over Delahoya in the amateur ranks. Delahoya is listed last I checked as a little more than a two to one favorite to beat Sugar Shane Mosley in this rematch but I think in reality this is very much a pick-em fight. I haven't delved to much into the reasons for why Delahoya may win the rematch as i think its fairly obvious given that Vernon Forrest drew the map on how to beat Shane Mosley with the consistant use of a well timed jab. I think Forrest is stylitically a harder style for Mosley to adapt to than Delahoya. For Oscar to win he is going to have to tweak his gameplan.

You heard it here first, this fight will end in a draw. I will probably wrong in my official prediction coming true but I think the potential for a draw is much higher in this fight given the close contest of the first fight and how evenly matched both fighters are. I know draws are always a longshot but I think this is one of those fights where the % odds of one each fighter emerging victorious would be something like a 40%-43%. I think I will think by the end of the night that Mosley deserved to win the fight but it will be one of those fights that boxing fans will argue about for years. I expect ODLH will have a slight edge in political favoritism with the officials. Oscar Delahoya and Shane Mosley will fight to a three way split draw, 115-114 Mosley, 116-112 Delahoya, 114-114 even.

Oscar Delahoya Draw against Shane Mosley

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Old 09-12-2003, 06:45 PM
hockeystl hockeystl is offline
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"Anek Hongtongkam from Thailand is 1 of 3 judges."

The promoter hires the judges, correct? Who's the promoter?
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Old 09-12-2003, 09:49 PM
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DLH Draw +2000 and Johnson +170 parlay is worth a $5 bet
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Old 09-12-2003, 09:56 PM
gradysfalcon gradysfalcon is offline
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both guys came in at 154 pounds
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Old 09-12-2003, 10:42 PM
Oddessa Oddessa is offline
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The promoter hires the judges, correct? Who's the promoter?

Yes with the approval of the sanctioning body. Promtor is Arum. DLH's show. Still too high IMO.
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Old 09-13-2003, 03:37 AM
E.D. E.D. is offline
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I am a long time boxing fan and am excited to see the fight this weekend.I think it will be a close one, but I give the mental confidence edge to Delhoya as Mosley has not looked good his last thee fights.Both fighters look ripped and ready so physical condition I would say is even.I agree the line is out of whack and should be Delhoya -140 or -150 IMO.

One question for everybody why does everyone say Delhoya is or should be stronger than Mosley?

Mosley is a power lifter and routinely bench presses 300lbs + and squats huge weights.
I could not imagine delhoya lifting near this amount so Mosley is stronger right?

I think Delhoya will win this fight but not because he is stronger but because he has more confidence going into this fight.although the line is too high for me to justify betting on Delhoya in what should be a close fight.
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Old 09-13-2003, 08:39 PM
alm alm is offline
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Mosley.

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Old 09-13-2003, 11:41 PM
THUMPER THUMPER is offline
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with the way the line moved, I'd say Joey stands to make some huge bank if Mosely wins or a draw. it seems like a pretty good chance of happening, but granted I'm relatively clueless when it comes to boxing.
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