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Old 04-08-2003, 06:54 PM
Limelight Limelight is offline
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Default MOSELY / OSCAR II 9/13/2003

The rematch..............


September 13, 2003 - De La Hoya vs Mosely
9/13/2003 10:00 PM Oscar De La Hoya vs Shane Mosely
101 Oscar De La Hoya -110
102 Shane Mosely -110
9/13/2003 10:00 PM Oscar De La Hoya vs Shane Mosely
103 De La Hoya vs Mosely Draw +1500
9/13/2003 10:00 PM Oscar De La Hoya vs Shane Mosely
105 De La Hoya vs Mosely No Draw -3900
9/13/2003 10:00 PM Oscar De La Hoya vs Shane Mosely fight will go
107 Over 10½ rounds -200
108 Under 10½ rounds +160
9/13/2003 10:00 PM Oscar De La Hoya vs Shane Mosely
109 De La Hoya by KO TKO or Dq +220
110 De La Hoya by Decision +200
111 Mosely by KO TKO or Dq +220
112 Mosely by Decision +200
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Old 04-09-2003, 03:25 AM
THUMPER THUMPER is offline
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Oscar must have won the first fight right?

I think his only loss is to Felix.

Anyway, I like Oscar in this one.
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Old 04-09-2003, 11:00 PM
Sonny Palermo Sonny Palermo is offline
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OD - How the hell are ya? Hope all is well........


Surfin Joe,
Oscar lost the 1st fight with Mosley,
and gave the Trinidad fight away with a stupid late round "Moty Python/Holy Grail strategy (run away, run away).

Don't know why but when I pick Oscar I always feel the need to preface it with "I am NOT an Oscar fan."
I don't like him, going back to when he didn't give Whitaker a rematch, and for a lot of BS since then.

But you bet with your head not with your heart IF you want to stay in the black
(although occasionally in boxing I will allow a bet on who I'd like to win rather than who I think will win so I can cheer my side on from ringside; it is hard rooting with your pocket but against the guy you want to win).

I'll pick Oscar here for the same reason I picked him in his last big bout, with Vargas - I see Mosley as damaged goods. Mentally more than physically, and that is a BIG part of boxing at this skill level.
Once the aura of invincibility is removed many fighters are less than their former selves. Doubts can come in where there were none before.
That slight edge (or lack of it for the guy off his 1st defeat) can be the difference in a close bout.

If anything age has improved Oscar, none of the negative signs of it show yet.
And he is the smarter fighter, more likely to make the proper adjustments.

Mosley was over rated to ever be called the 'best pound for pound' to begin with.
I caught a lot of hell for that last line, and the most hate mail ever, but I was vindicated when Forrest beat him, and proven correct when he did it again.
Now? Mosley hasn't won a fight since July of 2001.
His last big name opponent was - Oscar. In 2000. A split decision.

The better fighters thoughout time make adjustments and gain revenge for defeats.
Much as I don't like him I have to admit - Oscar isone of the best of our time. I think he makes the adjustments.

As further incentive, when handicapping boxing, it never hurts to follow the money, which is still Oscar. If he avenges his loss here there will be a flood of pressure and incentive (read:cash) for Tito to come out of retirement to give Oscar a chance to avenge his other loss (not including Whitaker of course).

Career-wise Oscar is up, Shane is down (and has been for 2 years now).
It's tough to stem the tide of a career flow, tougher still to do it against someone of Oscars caliber. I don't think Mosley has it in him.
I'll take Oscar.
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Old 04-10-2003, 02:02 AM
littleogre littleogre is offline
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Mosley will win again as he is a bad match for oscar
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Old 04-10-2003, 11:50 PM
Limelight Limelight is offline
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OLYMPIC now has Oscar De La Hoya -169 . [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img] What gives??????
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Old 04-11-2003, 03:25 AM
Sonny Palermo Sonny Palermo is offline
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I got ya covered LimeLight -
what gives is a certain 'superbookie' opened it Oscar -300,
so every scalper in the world is feasting on the dog at superboys Vegas shops and Oscar at O's;

side note - this is the same 'superbookieboy' who a few years back, I swear, had 5 teams at Ev or < to win the World Series in September. I'm sure there were other as ridiculous or more ridiculous stuff but I rarely go to his joints.....
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Old 04-11-2003, 03:50 AM
Limelight Limelight is offline
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Thanks Sonny. I know Oddessa was getting sick to his stomach thinking he may have hung a bad number or missed something, but IMO it's gonna be the SuperBookie that will have his pants around his ankles on fight night. I don't care if Oscar KO's Shane in the 1st round, Oscar -300 is entirely too much wood not bet Mosely. I can see layin the low -120's, but -300...............???? Like I said, 'what gives'. I think -150 was enough to make a play on the dog. While both are shells of their former greatness, IMO it is still a 7-5 fight. -LL
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Old 04-11-2003, 09:09 PM
Sonny Palermo Sonny Palermo is offline
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You're welcome LL;

OD has no worries - he knows his stuff.
His number is 'on', that's why I gave the quick example of some of superbookieboys other #'s.
I got the info/tip relayed to me in the office yesterday as to what was going on with the # on this fight.

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Old 04-12-2003, 05:56 PM
Oddessa Oddessa is offline
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Hey Sonny. Thanx for the heads up. I was seriously wondering what teh heck wqas happening with this fight. I wish I would have seen that big plus # out there. Time will tell. I am still sick over the Rahman Draw, Beyer win and the Judah/Johnson Draw. Needless to say I needed RAHMAN, LUCAS, and JOHNSON and thought I should have been 3-0 as opposed to 0-1-2. But thats the sport we all know and love. Feel free to drop me an email at Joeybagels@hotmail.com. Best of luck boss and don't be a stranger. Love ur analysis. Also...........will SecondsOut ever get a forum going again? That was the best one by far and they closed it. Brutal beat there. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
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Old 04-17-2003, 05:18 AM
Railbird Railbird is offline
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Oscar is the best pound for pound since Sugar Ray Robinson. He dominated trindad. Oscar is the only thing that has held the sport together besided Holyfield.
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Old 04-17-2003, 06:58 AM
Oddessa Oddessa is offline
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MAB and Morales can be added to that list. two honest fighters that don't duck fighters and give 110% each time out. Also love Chris Byrd, just because he is a good human being and skilled fighter, but just not enough of a draw to sell tickets. and last, but not least, Frietas has potential.
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Old 04-17-2003, 07:23 PM
Sonny Palermo Sonny Palermo is offline
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Rail,
that's part of my call on this one - Oscars skill level;
as I said the best fighters make the proper adjustments and avenge earlier losses; I think Oscar does so here;

OD,
you're welcome, my pleasure;

here's a tough call - which decision was worse - Judah or Rahman?
But, like you said, it is the sport we choose, the sport we love.

At least with Judah we know we'll get our money back going against him in his next fight, as he's gonna have to step up, even after that amateurish performance. Plus, we still got + money on his family by using Kostya over Zab.

As for Seconds Out, they contacted me and asked if I'd help with the forum, they plan on getting it back up soon. Politics keeping it off the 'net right now.

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Old 04-18-2003, 06:51 PM
Oddessa Oddessa is offline
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There was a guy at SO that posted under Everlast. Guy had some run, and his info was right on the money most of the time. Get that forum goin bro. It used to be the shit. People are stilll laying me -200 on Oscar, and b4 his Campus warm up. Brutal, but hopefully I will be smilin ear 2 ear when after the final bell rings. Or b4 wouldn't hurt either as long as I'm smiling. The 7-1 question this weekend is................
will Floyd be focussed or take another day off. As for Cotto......................I smell something here.......but I don't know if it's enough to pull a trigger. Like to know your thoughts. And THANX for stopping by. UFC is next weekend. My passion. Talk soon.- Bagels
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Old 05-21-2003, 08:39 PM
Oddessa Oddessa is offline
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The Fall and Rise of “Sugar” Shane
by Thomas Gerbasi (May 21, 2003)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure, they all forget. Not here though. Over in this section of cyberspace, some of us still call Mr. Mosley “Sugar”. Not “Sugar-Free” or plain-old Shane, but “Sugar” Shane.

Why?

Because some of us can’t forget the dazzle, the speed, and the love of conflict exhibited by the kid from Pomona who ran through the lightweight division, jumped up two classes to 147 and shocked the “Golden Boy” himself.

But that was a fistic eternity ago. Since that magical night almost three years ago in the Staples Center, Mosley ran into Vernon Forrest - who beat him twice - had a non-descript no contest with Raul Marquez earlier this year, and has seen his ascendancy to the throne of the legendary Sugars (Robinson and Leonard) put on the backburner, possibly forever.

So how ironic is it that Mosley, looking to rise to the top once again, has only Oscar De La Hoya standing in his way? They’ll do it this time in September, and while a lot has changed between the two since their first meeting, Mosley believes history will repeat itself.

“I believe it’s going to be a carbon copy of the first one,” said Mosley, 38-2 (35 KOs), 1 NC. “It’s going to be the same thing; we’re the same fighters.”

But are they?

Since their first bout (won by Mosley via split decision), De La Hoya has bulked up, brought in Floyd Mayweather Sr. in as his trainer, and won an epic war with Fernando Vargas last September. Mosley hasn’t won a fight in almost two years. The 31-year-old Mosley brushes aside such talk.

“I really don’t miss anything,” said Mosley of not having his hand raised since his July 2001 KO of Adrian Stone. “I still have the love of my family and everybody. I just look at it as if I’m competitive, and I’m not a quitter, so I never give up. I don’t think about those things. I just look forward to the future and winning this fight. That’s all that’s in my mind – this fight and De La Hoya.”

And he may actually be able to live up to that goal of complete focus, having shed IMG as his promoter and moving on to Gary Shaw Promotions, a situation where Mosley actually has someone who knows the sport backing him. It’s a load off Mosley’s shoulders that he is happy to have lifted.

“It takes a lot of the stress off your mind,” Mosley admits. “Before I really didn’t have anybody that was ready to fight for me; I was just going with the flow of things. Now I’ve got a fighter. I’m a fighter inside the ring, and he’s a fighter outside.”

Shaw concurs, making it very clear that Team Mosley will not play second fiddle to the De La Hoya steamroller.

“It’s my job to shield him, to make sure that he’s not abused by the De La Hoya camp or by Arum, or by the way the promotion is running itself,” said Shaw. “We’ll be as cooperative as we can be with Bob Arum to make this as good a promotion as possible. But as an example, if I’m on the dais and Floyd (Mayweather Sr.) keeps going off and off, there’s only so long that we’re going to sit there as a team and tolerate it. He’ll be talking to an empty dais, and they’re not used to that from Shane Mosley. They’ve never seen that. But in my deal with Shane, he gave me everything outside the ring, and I gave him everything inside the ring. So as far as that goes, I have an excellent relationship with the Nevada Commission, and I believe in them. I will scrutinize the officials chosen by the sanctioning bodies and by the commission, as I’m sure Arum will. But they won’t be pro-Oscar De La Hoya officials. That’s not happening.”

Needless to say, Shaw’s signing of Mosley has made it evident that he doesn’t believe the former lightweight and welterweight champ is damaged goods or a flash in the pan as far as boxing marketability is concerned.

“When (Evander) Holyfield took his losses, was he damaged goods?” asks Shaw. “Or did he come back and beat Mike Tyson? I’ve been around this game long enough to know that styles make fights, and to try and evaluate when I consider a fighter damaged goods. In my book, when someone is damaged goods, that means it’s time to get out of boxing; that’s not the time for them to become the opponent. I don’t think Shane Mosley is damaged goods by any stretch of the imagination. I think he wins the fight. He’s not coming in as the challenger or the underdog. That’s one of the perceptions we’re going to change. The Vegas oddsmakers can do whatever they want, and the writers can write whatever they want, but all I know is that he was in the ring with De La Hoya at the Staples Center, and as far as I remember, he won the fight. We’re coming in as the champion. We may not have the belt; we may not have the rights of the champion, but we know that he already beat this man once.”

Can he do it again, though? Mosley is understandably confident, and the parallels to his standing before the first De La Hoya fight are evident. For example, Mosley is still receiving the short end of the purse, he’s still the betting underdog, and he is risking a toss back to non-HBO fights with a loss. Or as Mosley puts it:

“Yeah, I see this fight as a must-win.”

Yet along with the usual confidence, Mosley is also bringing with him the attitude of someone who has been wronged. No, he won’t come out and say it in so many words, but the kid with the winning smile who was the toast of the boxing world a few years ago, still burns with the feeling that he hasn’t gotten treated the way he should have, either monetarily or with the outside endorsements so rare in this game.

“The only reason I’m fighting is for the love of the game,” said Mosley. “It’s not for the money because I’m not getting paid what I’m supposed to be getting, so it’s for the love of the game and to get back on top. That’s the reason why I took the fight. But you can’t be bitter; you just look forward to bigger and better things. You can’t dwell on the past; you’ve got to look to the future, which for me is beating De La Hoya.

Or maybe he took it because it was the smart business move - possibly the most winnable fight, and definitely the most lucrative. And with a victory, Mosley can write his own check for his next fight – the ultimate goal of any fighter.

“The plan after September is to continue to fight all the top guys out there,” said Mosley. “(Fernando) Vargas is out there, Winky (Wright) is out there, and so are (Ricardo) Mayorga and Vernon (Forrest). I’m just ready to fight.”

Shane Mosley says he’s going back to what got him to a championship, and that he’s bringing everything in full force. He needs to if he plans on beating De La Hoya. But if he can upset the golden apple cart once again, he will have achieved that rarest of rarities - redemption. It’s something few ex-champions experience, but there are two who have.

They’re both named “Sugar”.
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