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  #229 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2001, 01:01 AM
el tiburon el tiburon is offline
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Bush's speech tonight send a very strong message to the terrorists of this world. He will have lots of pressure to back-up his words and will have no choice but to react. Americains will not forgive him if he doesn't do something!
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  #230 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2001, 01:16 AM
superbook superbook is offline
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The local news here just reported that probably close to 200 firemen and 75 cops lost their lives in this crime.

Most of the firemen missing and presumed dead were the first to arrive at the scene, maybe as many as half of the first 400 there.
They were in the building rescuing people as it suddenly collapsed.

According to the news, if they were in the building when it collapsed their chances of being alive in the rubble are not good, each of the towers (in steel only) weighed something like 250,000 tons.

Over 11,000 firemen were eventually at the scene.
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  #231 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2001, 01:48 AM
Krackman Krackman is offline
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Yes that is true. I just heard that they are frantically looking as we speak because there are people alive under the rubble calling on there cell phones and police radios.

Also just heard on 880am (cbs news NYC)that "they just intercepted a truck full of explosives heading for the GW bridge. Two men are in custody"
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  #232 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2001, 02:20 AM
MarkDel MarkDel is offline
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OZ,

I may in fact you an apology...apparently the Prime Minister of your own Australia just recently issued a very, very strong statement stating that the Australian Government will support ANY form of retaliation that the U.S. thinks is appropriate...
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  #233 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2001, 02:45 AM
Mr Memory Mr Memory is offline
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Ceramic knives don't tip themselves off
in metal detectors -- and work all too
well. And you can easily hide a
stiletto blade with a fountain-pen casing.
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  #234 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2001, 03:31 AM
OZ OZ is offline
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so do I mark

but lets get it right first

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  #235 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2001, 03:36 AM
Samurai Samurai is offline
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Mark:

The Australians aren't the only ones, and they won't be the last to offer support for ANY form of retaliation.

You may end up eating quite a large portion of crow after all is said and done. Like I said earlier....this time is VERY different.
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  #236 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2001, 03:43 AM
Spearmaster Spearmaster is offline
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Now denying the explosives report on CNN.

Mark -

I don't think there is a country in the world (except Afghanistan) that has not sent messages of condolence and support.

I don't think any of these countries (except perhaps Pakistan) is going to argue or protest if there is a sudden burst of activity in Afghanistan or whereever they deem appropriate.

Kofi Annan will reiterate the UN's position on peaceful resolution, but there will be no condemnation of any retaliatory action.

I cannot possibly imagine that the American response to this will be silence and lack of action. All my instincts say that a lack of response is the very LAST thing to expect from our government.
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  #237 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2001, 03:44 AM
MarkDel MarkDel is offline
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Samurai,

God I hope you're right...I would love to be dead wrong about this...but just remember, the strong words of support have been made BEFORE we take major action...once we do (?) then their reactions may be very, very different.
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  #238 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2001, 03:56 AM
MarkDel MarkDel is offline
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Spearmaster,

Virtually all of the countries, even scum like Cuba and Libya, will SAY they offer their condolences now, but when we actually act, they will condemn us.

Look, maybe I should be more speccific...I'm not talking about simple air strikes as "acting" that's just symbolic bullsh*t...I'm talking about REAL action. If we take REAL action, we will not be supported by most of the world.

What constitutes real action? A 48-72 Hour ultimatum where we tell the nation of Afghanistan that they either turn over Bin Laden and his ENTIRE organization and all INFORMATION on his organization, or they forfeit their right to existence. Any civilized country would arrest and even extradite accused criminals...Bin Laden is wanted for SEVERAL past terrorist attacks yet the Taliban harbors him and tacitly supports his activities. This is a war and needs to be treated as such...did ALL of the Germans support the Nazis in World War II??? No, but we had to eradicate them and many innocent people died...but it was their government's fault, not ours. This is the same...the actions of the Afghani Government have put the people in that nation in grave peril. Now I'm not talking about nuclear weapons, but I'm talking about everything just barely short of that stage. Bomb every day, for years if necessary, until they give up the terrorists to us...keep bombing until they give them up or run out of people...

This constitutes REAL action and it MUST be done, otherwise we will face this sort of terrorism on a consistent basis. History has proven that those who choose appeasement over strength take it in the ass over the long haul and we just got greased up and bent over the sofa...now we can relax and wait for it to happen, or we can get up and beat the living shit out of the guy trying to jam it in...

[This message has been edited by MarkDel (edited 09-12-2001).]
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  #239 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2001, 04:00 AM
OZ OZ is offline
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mark

This is not playing political games in some f-cking 3rd world country

this was a military attack on the US in the US

not in the same ball park

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  #240 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2001, 04:04 AM
OZ OZ is offline
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keep bombing until they give them up or run out of people

mark
that not going to work... I can't remeber when that alone has work


[This message has been edited by OZ (edited 09-12-2001).]
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  #241 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2001, 04:13 AM
AussieVamp2 AussieVamp2 is offline
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:[/size]<HR>Originally posted by MarkDel:
OZ,

I may in fact you an apology...apparently the Prime Minister of your own Australia just recently issued a very, very strong statement stating that the Australian Government will support ANY form of retaliation that the U.S. thinks is appropriate...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try www.theage.com.au

or www.smh.com.au probably have something and maybe even some audio, seeing Howard is in the US

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  #242 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2001, 04:16 AM
Spearmaster Spearmaster is offline
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We're still in the aftermath, Mark. There's a lot more important work to be finishing before considering retaliation.

But right now Libya and Cuba are basically isolated - and no one is going to care if they condemn our government's actions.

If they confirm it was Bin Laden, I don't think they will rest until he and his cronies are eliminated.

Once was enough. Twice was too much.
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  #243 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2001, 05:35 AM
cjd333 cjd333 is offline
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Mark,
I agree with you 100%. If we confirm that the SOB is in Afghanastan, then let's go hunt his ass down NOW! If they get in the way, we bomb the shit outta them. Send the planes in first to bomb surronding areas where we believe he may be. Drop the Delta forces in to find his ass. Back that up with the Marines and Army Tanks and Choppers as well as air support. NO MATTER HOW LONG IT TAKES!

I say if we get the bastard that we should drag him out ALIVE, invite CNN to tag along, and burn his miserable ass up on LIVE TV Worldwide. NO TRIAL, NO JURY, NO JUDGE. If he wants the Wild Wild West, let's give it to him. And then Bush can go back on TV and tell everyone that WE ARE NOT GONNA TAKE SHIT FROM ANYONE. THEN people might ACTUALLY believe it!

Now of course no country in their right mind would support us if we did THAT, but screw'm. Maybe if somebody had wiped out these low-life fanatical Muslims in the first place, this would have never happenned.

I say SPARE NO EXPENSE, and don't stop until the Bastard is being burnt alive on International TV.

Once we're done with him, head over to the West Bank and take over that whole damn area with all those A$$HOLE Palestinians. F*CK them too with their "celebrations" in the street! If Israel doesn't want to take control, then let'm get the F*CK outta the way and WE WILL!

If we're gonna be considered the world's "bully" then let's start acting like it. NO MORE MR. NICE GUY

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  #244 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2001, 06:57 AM
AussieVamp2 AussieVamp2 is offline
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From what I was reading Cuba said the same thing as others, and offered airport space to those that needed it - US planes or otherwise
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  #245 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2001, 03:47 PM
ronscomputer ronscomputer is offline
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:[/size]<HR>Originally posted by MarkDel:
Oz,

It's bigger than Pearl Harbor. That was an attack on a military installation that killed about 2,100 people...this is a series of attacks on the U.S. mainland against civilian targets...even in World War II, the U.S. mainland was never invaded or seriously threatened other than a few months after Pearl Harbor where there was fear of an invasion of the West Coast. This is actually MUCH more impactful on the national psyche...but Pearl Harbor took place 60 years ago...in a different time...with different people....different allies...different world leaders. The US will be far less aggressive than you think...and if we DO take a strong offensive, we will not be overtly supported by most nations.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


We dont need their support. Let them sit back and keep their mouths shut and mind their own business. If they want to condemn us for it, then they are the enemy too.

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  #246 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2001, 05:19 PM
Spearmaster Spearmaster is offline
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Just in from CNN:

NATO is meeting to discuss invoking Article Five of its charter which would give a green light to the United States to retaliate once it determines who is responsible for Tuesday's attack and expediate assistance from other NATO members.
http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe....us/index.html

A green light to retaliate??? Who the hell needs NATO's permission? Sheesh...
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  #247 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2001, 08:08 PM
heath heath is offline
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cjd333,

I understand that you are upset, and I am only offering an alternative viewpoint.

I've studied Biblical prophecy heavily for the past 5 years. I taught a chapter by chapter bible study on Revelation at one of the biggest Baptist churches in Atlanta. I'll be happy to have a conversation w/ you via email about Daniel, Ezekiel or Jesus's words in Luke and Mathew.

I'll debate the rapture, the 7 trumps, 7 seals, the Harlot of Babylon, the Parable of the Fig Tree, the 2 witnesses, the Millineum, birth pains and anything else you care to discuss pertaining to the "end times". I don't think a biblical discussion of prophecy is really relevant here and we can discuss it further privately if you like.

However, my point is this:

1. Bin Laden has blowing up our stuff up and killing our people for years. ABC, NBC (or CBS -- don't remember. Maybe both?) and Time Magazine did interviews w/ him for crying out loud. He's played America's favorite game -- incrementalism -- like a pro. He's slowly done more and more barbaric acts. We've stomached them all. Each one is worse than the previous one. He's attacked our navy ships, our embassys and the WTC once before.

WE'VE DONE NOTHING ABOUT HIM THE PAST. WHAT WILL BE DIFFERENT NOW? Because the American people demand it? Puhlease.

2. The only REAL retaliation will be against our Civil Liberties. Hey, I'm all for Sky Marshalls and giving airplane pilots firearms. I'm not for giving up my Civil Liberties because our govt. is contaminated by a bunch of looters who tax us death, give away the money to foreign countries, and then get us drawn into war because of the sworn enemies of these countries.

3. America's goofy determination to protect other country's borders needs to be re-examined.

4. There may be a superficial retaliation to quell the cry of the American people (A few aspirin factories or deserted camps in the desert of Afgahnistan). NOTHING ELSE

I hope I'm wrong about 1,2 and 4 above. I doubt it though.

Ja-ja-jaded,
Heath

P.S. Don't forget this is the same govt. that set a house on fire in Texas then ran the people over with tanks when they came out.

Don't forget this is the same govt. that covered up (and convicted 2 journalists for treason for reporting on it) after the Navy accidently blew up TWA flight 800 on July 17, 1996.

I love this country and the principles on which is what was founded. Its still the greatest country in the world (its not even close).

However, anyone that thinks our lawmakers are these white knights, running around with white hats, riding white horses, looking for all the places they can do good in the world is either naive or in denial.

[This message has been edited by heath (edited 09-12-2001).]
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