Are offshore casinos going to become a thing of the past?

[The Major]

I think once legislation is in place and Nevada opens their doors to the internet the offshore casinos will have no shot.

The major

[JC]

I disagree.

Gambling is going global. Mexico is now planning on legalizing casino gambling. Jorge Rhon, the billionaire owner of Caliente, has paid-off the government and has exclusive sportsbook rights in Baja. If Rhon didn't have exclusivity, Tijuana could become an international sportsbook haven.

[Underdog7]

I strongly agree in a way that offshore will be losing a lot of customers. I strongly disagree that it will be a thing in the past.
There will always be offshores as long as our buddy Kyl won't win.

If Mirage, Ceasar's, Bellagio to name a few giants open up internet betting, bettors will be more secured sending their "hard earned" money to places they know it's solid than places they haven't seen.

For people who scalp, this shouldn't be much of a factor.

[BuzzRavanaugh]

I agree with you Major. I think if the Vegas Books can offer the wide array of betting options that are done offshore, I think players will opt to do business with places in Nevada.

[RackMan]

The Internal question for the Offshore Industry.

Right now, it is all about the College Betting Bill. MW customers have to bet college sports somewhere. There will always be SOMEWHERE.


RackMan

PS
There is some good reading out there right now on these issues...also, Bear Stearns(by Jason Ader) has updated their outlook...I should have my hands on their new report soon. FYI, Jason Ader from BS is the leading Gaming Analyst on Wall Street. U can see him on CNBC from time to time.

[Spearmaster]

Major -

Are you referring specifically to casinos, or to offshore books as well?

As far as books are concerned, I wouldn't be too worried.

As far as casinos are concerned - it will depend on a number of factors, but if online casinos continue on their current paths until Vegas allows online gambling and can accept wagers from other states, they will surely falter.

There are factors which can give offshore casinos a big advantage, but there's no need to go into them just yet because the necessary resources are not yet in place.

[The Devil]

Rackman,

I have a copy of the March,2001 version....

But it is in a book....don't know how to display it.....

The Devil

[Stunner]

Major,

If the Bellagio, MGM et al open their doors, do you really think that they will try to start from scratch?
Of course not. With the volumes of dollars behind them, the first thing that they will do is have a little Caribbean holiday and come home with half a dozen succesful books in their pockets.
No better reason to be in front of the game as far as customer numbers and reputation go.
Rather than waking every morning, moving numbers, winning and losing - just wait for Stevie to walk in and say - 30,000 clients? that'l be $100 per client, $2m for the hardware and take four in goodwill. How 'bout I write the check for an even $10 million. Good work. See you later.

Love you all.

Stunner

xx

(P.S. Dear Mr Wynn - please visit me first)

[pokerjoe]

This thread's title says "casinos" and I'd have to say yes, they are going to die out. When you can bet on the net, on a televised live roulette spin at the Bellagio, you're not going to bet on a computer simulated wheel offshore.

Offshore sports and horses, however, may get stronger than ever, especially with the security of brick-and-mortar backed English outs.

Reno--I always wondered why Mexico hasn't stepped up and owned the US internet sportsbetting action. In case anyone doubts the longterm cost of monopolies and corruption, just witness the failure of Mexico to make the money now going elsewhere. And it isn't just the net betting they've blown. Even SoCal bettors don't often bother betting in TJ because the prices and offers aren't competitive. Which is inexusable.

I have a friend who worked for the man in Mexico City, and then Juarez, for about a year, this was maybe two years ago. He said he couldn't believe how poorly run the whole thing was, and what's more, how determined to stay that way it was. He said it's a whole different and extremely counterproductive corporate culture, wherein if you pointed out ways to improve things, you were seen as a threat and insult to your superiors. The bureaucratic game there was to be grateful for your overpaid/underworked job and at all costs, don't rock the boat.

Considering how much opportunity for corruption exists in the casino industry, and how ingrained is the culture of corruption in Mexico, I wonder how wise it would be of any American gaming corporation to get involved down there.

I can see it now: Americans vacationing at a Mexican resort, seeing that there seem to be extra 5s in the blackjack decks, complain to the management, and get met only with the coldest who-gives-a-fck stare in the world.

And don't nobody jump up and call me racista, por que mi esposa, mi corazon, es Mexicana. And besides, I don't know any Mexicans who'd dispute what I said above. Who do you think I learned it from? Why do you think so many come here?

[The Actuary]

Reno,
I have heard the same, not necessarily the Tijuana part, but an attempt to build a massive gaming empire in Mexico.....It beg's the obvious, why isn't there already a big presence there? It seems third world status would'nt be a problem. I have read and seen no reasons.
TYIA
TA
PJ, You're too damn quick

[This message has been edited by The Actuary (edited 04-27-2001).]

[gradysfalcon]

tj had slot machines about 7 years ago ,they lasted about a week before the goverment made them pull them out of there sport books...ive had a account there in the sportbooks for 10 years there, there favorites are jacked up on games and you can find some good value there sometimes especially on the fights ,when one of there mexican fighters is fighting ...

[Spearmaster]

Just a very short answer.

In Asia, if you ask 100 people to name a Las Vegas casino, 99 of them will not be able to name one.

In other words, there is a world outside North America.

[AussieVamp2]

He's got a point there, people know that Las Vegas has casinos, but wouldn't know one from another, they probably assume the Hilton has one there, that is about it

And how many of said US citizen scalpers would prefer anonymous non-US places to taxable, recorded US ones?

[AussieVamp2]

PJ,

Slot machines still run by numbers and riggable anywhere though, but somewhere where you are going to lose anyway maybe better to use Australian, US, UK ones that are less likely to be bent (presumably )

[Spearmaster]

I don't even think the Hilton would come into play LOL. The only one likely to have any exposure is Caesar's Palace.

<edit>For those of you missing the point, what I am saying is that any Hilton would not enter an Asian's mind as a casino in LAS VEGAS. Only Caesar's Palace might come to mind.<end edit>

[This message has been edited by Spearmaster (edited 04-28-2001).]

[RackMan]

Spear..I am pretty sure they(Hilton) are already involved, either thru Harrods(department store) or Ladbrokes from GB. I think the Hilton Corp owns both Harrods and Ladbrokes.


RackMan

[This message has been edited by RackMan (edited 04-27-2001).]

[AussieVamp2]

What I mean is, Hilton is associated with hotels, here, anyway, and people know that

Caesar's Palace was something Russell Crowe ran around in would be the current thinking

Isn't the online Nevada gambling going to be limited to Nevada residents? If so, it will have virtually nil direct impact on Web gambling as a whole. If, however, Internet gambling is legalized in the USA, then kiss the mom and pop ofshore casinos good-bye.

Regarding sportsbetting, unless online sportsbetting is nationally legalized--which is less likely to happen than Mark Del and the Philosopher becoming good buddies--low-limit Nevada-only wagering will not affect the offshore books in the least.