Poker cheating cont'd

[Yobbo]

Written by newgca in rec.gambling.poker

This will be a long post about why and how the Stu Unger won the 1997 WSOP.

Around 1995 Stu Unger was getting to be a major problem for the cheats in
Vegas. Stu was drug addict who was not going to quit. He also had to much
information on the cheats and they were afraid of him screaming if he didn't
stay in money.

He was occasionally playing at the Regency around this time. The Regency in
Bell Ca. This is where the cheats and Stu Unger did much damage to Huck
Seed, Phil Helmuth and many other honest players. Yosh Nakano hosted this
game. Doyle, Chip, Eric and Stu were among the cheats in attendance.

Problem was however, Stu Unger was getting older and more addicted to drugs.
He was a large liability at this time. If he didn't have drugs and money, he
would be screaming. The cheaters kept supplying Stu Unger with money. They
didn't have much choice other than the obvious.

Stu was never in any real condition to play cards. Drugs consumed most of
his life at this time. He was used to a life style, but was getting to old
to support it. Besides the technology had advanced dramatically. Too many
other cheats also entered the picture.

I Russ Georgiev was also playing in the Bell club occasionally at this time.
There was a smaller pot limit game around 50 feet from where the "big game"
was played. I observed much of what transpired.
Though I didn't know Bill Nirdlinger or John Martino[except by their names
and reputations] they were also around.

Now we go to September of 2000 when I first approached Mike Caro on doing
these interviews about cheating. Bill Nirdlinger and I had allied with each
other. Bill was doing drugs and I took him off the street. We discussed the
current situation in poker. We discussed our histories and the way things
had progressed. I expressed my desire for revenge. More and more cheats were
entering the scene. Fewer games were available to cheat in. Fewer games were
available to play honestly in. Either way was beneficial to me. However the
water holes were drying up and other cheats had the games staked out.

Of course I could of gone to a lower level. I played $100 chips all of my
life and had already gone done to $25 chips. I refused to go lower. The
other cheats controlled the bigger games and I couldn't get in. I wouldn't
of let them in years before so this was my payback. I just had seniority and
the knowledge of the circumstances for 30+ years. Some one made a mistake or
we wouldn't be here.

I approached Mike Caro in the fall of 2000 to expose cheating in poker. I
had at least 10 managers in various casinos in my pocket. The games were too
small for my acquired tastes and expenses. Even though you have managers in
your pocket doesn't mean others don't also. Others had the say over many of
my managers. I said F+++ IT.

When I approached Mike Caro with Bill Nirdlinger, we started telling him
things he was aware of, but had no corroboration for. He suspected I
cheated, as well as many of the names I gave him. Bill came with a lot of
information also. First hand information.

We met with Mike many, many times and spent many, many hours with him. We
planned on this interview in RGP but couldn't come with a suitable date for
any of us. Finally we put the June date on the calendar. Word was out much
earlier.

I have not been in any LA casinos for around 2 years now. As far as playing
anyway. I have spent much money to make this happen. I also gave up my life.
I have done nothing except fight cheating for about the last 2 or 3 years.
The few private games I went to had cheating in them. My outlook may be bad,
but when I go into a game and people are cheating in it I see the game as my
enemy. Though many of the people are playing honestly the cheats are
fleecing them. If not for my abilities I would also be a victim. So I love
to beat crooked games. The "honest players" are also casualties. No
prisoners. Unfortunately you don't get many opportunities for this. The
cheats realize very quickly. The saying goes this way "you are the best
cheats we never caught".

In Spring of 2001 John Martino signed on. He was a virtual book on first
hand cheating in Vegas. He was there in 1966. First hand dealings with
everyone in those days and for the next ten years. GCA was a complete
package. Many first hand accounts of everybody in poker cheating. John
however has been barred from the Mirage for the last ten years. This
happens when the cheats don't have anymore use for you.When you make
enemies.

In April of 2001 John, Bill and I made a pact. I was out-voted 2-1. They
were going to Costa Rica to cheat. They were going to Costa Rica to obtain
the new lenses for the marked cards. Our eyes were not the young eyes we
used to have. We needed the new technology. We agreed if we received the new
technology we would not do the interview. We did not tell Mike Caro this.
The new technology was a license to steal, but no one would part with it.
Everyone wanted 50% of the action for the use of it. No one wanted to sell
it.

John and Bill went down to Costa Rica. I was bank-rolling the proposition.
Marty Carson was down there with Mike O"Connor and technology was be put in
casinos to cheat poker with. The camera was to be used in poker games. The
audio and the earpiece would be the main weapon in poker. On GCA tapes Mike
Caro asks "if the camera was being set up". Well it was, along with other
games. "Rough and Smooth", [a type of marked card where you feel the card to
tell what it is] was to be installed in the "black-jack" and "baccarat"
games. Crooked or "rigged" shoes were to be used. All games were to be
crooked when the opportunity arose. If there was money to be made it would
be "cheated". I personally talked to Mike O'Connor and told him the way to
get people there was to pay for everything. I explained that the best way
would be to hire "high end props" for poker games. I stated they would
always bring lots of cash. Pay them whatever you like. They will be cheated
anyway. No win for the people who came down.

At this time John Martino and Bill Nirdlinger were to get the latest lenses
and glasses. These glasses were the key to the newer marked cards. Not many
people have these lenses. Marty Carson had spent 6 months in Costa Rica
setting things up. John and Bill knew Marty Carson very well. Marty promised
John Martino the "new lenses". April of 2001 brought the Bellagio Incident.
This was the beginning. John and Bill were coming back from Costa Rica.
Marty was also. John was to receive the "new glasses". The ability to have
contact lenses made and to be able to cheat people out of a fortune. The ink
cost over $500 a gram. The glasses around $13,000. We received a huge
discount. Get what you pay for.

Well John got the "glasses". He Fed-Ex them right away to California where
Bill and I took them to an optometrist. We went through a list before we
came upon the right person to make the lenses. Bill was the first to get the
glasses made.They were a dark purple color on the top and graduated to a
lighter shade. Once he put them on you couldn't take them off him. He didn't
need glasses except for small readers. I had them made a couple of hours
later. John Martino was flying in the next day. He had glasses made. We
ordered "contact lenses" to be made. However because of the filter in the
lenses it was to be a couple of weeks. We went out and bought $1000 worth of
equipment for the measuring of the ingredients for the ink. Everything was
to be precise. We had the ink as we had purchased it from Marty.

We were F+++++. The ink didn't seem to be the right kind. We went back to
the source Marty Carson provided us with and sent for more ink. I had spent
$10,000 by now. We received the new ink. It turned out it was the SAME OLD
SHIT. The lenses we received were a modified version of the old "Ruby Red"
lenses I still had. I had these contact lenses 30 years before. I had them
now. We had just spent $10,000 and a month of time getting the same thing we
had over 30 years ago. Marty Carson had screwed us again. We wanted the new
"COBALT BLUE" lenses and had received the same old lenses from before.

This was about the time we called Eric Drache. We were calling to
"negotiate" how we could get these lenses. We were more than willing to buy
them. They come with the "bull-shit" about extortion. They knew what we were
talking about.

Around 1997 Stu Unger was becoming a bigger sink hole than ever for the
"cheats"[the same people we have been posting about]. Money was needed all
the time. Constant money. Stu Unger had these "cheats" by the balls. He was
one of them and had a big reputation also. He had a lot of 1st hand
credibility. What could they do.

The solution came about in the 1997 WSOP FINAL EVENT $10,000 NO-LIMIT.
Stu would be backed in this event by a basically anonymous source.[the
cheats] He would use the "COBALT BLUE" glasses to read the "MARKED CARDS" in
the tournament. He couldn't wear the contacts because he was doing so much
drugs at this time. This is the give away. The small "COBALT BLUE" glasses
should not of been used. Contact lenses should be made from the same
prescription as the glasses. However Stu Unger couldn't wear the contacts
lenses because drugs had affected his body in so many ways. Notice the
"small glasses" Stu Unger wears in the tape of the 1997 WSOP. They are made
small like this so anybody looking over his shoulder would have a harder
time of seeing the cards from behind him. That would be a give away in
itself. It is also a reason you wear contact lenses.

Now back to the 1st GCA tape made in May 10, 2001. Notice Bill Nirdlinger
wearing a similar pair of glasses to the ones Stu Unger wore in 1997. Bill
was wearing the older version of the "RUBY RED" lenses. Bill was obsessed
with making them work since he also couldn't wear contact lenses. Bill had
also gone back to drugs.

Notice John Martino and I stated we had a falling out with Bill Nirdlinger
after he set us up to be killed. For not delivering on this[having us
killed] he was forced to give up the "glasses" to other parties involved.
They were also unaware at this time that Marty Carson had screwed us.
Everyone thought we had the "COBALT BLUE" lenses. Thus for not being able to
deliver John and myself Bill Nirdlinger had to give up the glasses. Notice
in the second tape made on June 9, 2001 Bill Nirdlinger is not wearing any
glasses. Notice his eyes. He was back on drugs and under enormous stress. He
had failed to deliver John and myself. Giving the glasses up gave him a
reprieve.

Here we have Stu Unger satisfying many sides with the "FIXING of the 1997
WSOP $10,000 event". The cheats took money back in and Stu was satisfied for
a while. You can only guess who made this happen. We have been telling you
this all along.

After winning the 1997 WSOP Stu Unger went to the Lady Luck casino and
posted $200,000 to play black-jack. He wore the same glasses. The Lady Luck
was being beaten by Gary Young, Lou Olejack, Tom Reda, Al Silvers and other
at this time. All were wearing contacts. After Stu Unger went in and won
around $200,000, the Lady Luck was history for the cheats. Everyone was
barred. Lou Olejack entered the NEVADA BLACK BOOK in 1997. They finally
realized why these people had been winning money from the casino in
black-jack. Stu Unger had worn "COBALT BLUE" glasses. He couldn't use
contacts because of drug problems. It is also a give away. Ask people who
were at the final table with Stu Unger about the final event. He made calls
and stated things one could only do with the ability to know the cards.

Well people, the 1997 $10,000 WSOP was won using marked cards with the aid
of the MANAGEMENT. Many birds were killed with this happening. For those of
you that think this is a work of fiction just check out everything we have
stated. How the events have gone down and watch the video tapes. It would
take quite an imagination to come up with this story. Check out all the
pieces to this puzzle. The "FIX" was in at the WSOP again. Watch it on video
tape.

We will take a day or two off while people evaluate this. Well people, how
many of you were cheated in this tournament? How long are you going to let
the casinos go without answering questions. Watch both tapes. John Martino
and I still have "RUBY RED" contacts and glasses. They are obsolete compared
to the "COBALT BLUE" lenses and contacts.

John M Russ G "whistle-blowers" newgca@aol.com ps I Russ
Georgiev watched this. I can even prove I was in Vegas at this time.

[crazyjoe]

very good story. your story states that the casinos/management are in on the cheating of the players.

[MDMAniac]

I am curious to hear what PokerJoe has to say about this. I don't follow the game like I used to, but I find this very hard to believe.

Later,

MDMAniac

[highhand]

that is one of the most insane things i have ever read. did the drugs blister his eyeballs?

[Yobbo]

Normally I would be quite skeptical of this type of story. However, knowing the technology that is being used by blackjack teams (eg micro cameras and invisible ear pieces) this would not suprise me. It is much easier and less chance of getting caught cheating in poker compared to games where casinos have a financial stake. Pay off the right people and you will never be caught.

[Railbird]

some peoples eyes are sensitive to contacts,I had to have radial keratotomy surgery because of this,that is why Stu needed the sunglasses to cheat,his eyes were probably sensitive to contact lenses.
I doubt if Poker Joe cheats,he is probably an honest grinder.

[Railbird]

Im sure the cheaters will have teams of spindoctors,and kiss asses make suck-up posts to cover their cheating ways.

[crazyjoe]

i think i remember watching this wop on tv and the guy that won was this skinny guy with small dark sunglasses and i remember thinking he looks like he's on drugs.

[Railbird]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:[/size]<HR>Originally posted by crazyjoe:
i think i remember watching this wop on tv and the guy that won was this skinny guy with small dark sunglasses and i remember thinking he looks like he's on drugs.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

90% of all poker players look like someone dug them out of the grave,these people are on drugs and coffee and totally neglect their families and are all professional borrowers.

[pokerjoe]

Bird, I am honest, but not a grinder. There's no grinding over 10-20. Grinders are meat at 20 and higher. Absolute meat. "Grinder" isn't quite the "N" word of the poker world that "nit" is (thanks again, Heath), but it ain't no complement. Use it sparingly and accurately, please.

About Stu Ungar, he did wear those little blue glasses at the time, and I remember thinking it was odd, I'd never seen such glasses in a game before.

He was a drug addict. You could look at his nose and tell how bad.

He was put in that tourney by xxxxxx.

But I don't know if he was a cheat, or if the WSOP was a fix, and none of the above is evidence. And of course Stuey's dead now, God rest him.

These GCA guys talk a lot but show nothing. They seem to know about cheating from another time and place, from the era before poker went public in this country.

But.....

There's a break in poker. Over 40-80, things become VERY different. You can't just go out and play. You've got to do some setting up. There's a lot of game playing OFF the table, which I hate. Borrowing, staking, piecing, arranging. At the least, people are taking pieces of each other, or flat out partnering, which, even without overt cheating, can lead to a subtle collusion effect. This is especially a problem in tournaments, but I don't play those.

But still I don't think there's much if any overt (mechanics or collusion) cheating going on, and as yet these GCA accusers haven't shown any real evidence. I think, really, all public mid-sized games are honest, and PROBABLY most big ones are as well. That's just my guess.

There's this about cheats and poker: poker pros obsessively observe their opponents. And I find it difficult to believe that one can cheat at cards and never be the least bit hinky about it. I find it hard to believe I couldn't pick up a cheat's tells. But of course you can always hypothesize cheats so good they're undetectable, not just by the mechanics (I grant that undetectability) but by their personality. But again, I've known more than my share of criminals and lowlifes (haven't most of us who live in the gambler's world?) and hinkiness is hard to hide.

Also, it's easy for people to think they were cheated, from bitterness about their losing.

I've many times seen people, not good players, go on streaks when they first start playing, run up a BR, assume they're good and not just lucky, move up in stakes as their BR increases, and when the cards finally break even on their silly butts, assume they are then getting cheated.

I've seen absolute idiot players sit down in our local big game, a pot-limit, lose, and later mumble about being cheated. Guys with NO chance, guys your mother could beat with a rank-of-hands chart and her pie-baking patience, crying foul. In a game I have inside knowledge of, where I could see the tapes if I wanted, and thus know there's no cheating in. And it's a big enough game to warrant cheating. (These GCA guys also made some allegations about that game, which is where they lose me, personally.)

I've heard many times allegations about the Asians in the LA clubs, including the 40's, colluding. They aren't. What happens is you sit down and you're the only white guy AND the only one who isn't a regular there AND they play off their knowledge of each other AND you make more mistakes because you don't have that knowledge AND you lose when you're used to winning AND it feels funny and bad.

That's not the same as being cheated. That just means, yeah, there's HFA in poker.

[LEGAL SCHOLAR]

mr yobbo are you saying that these special glasses allow you to read any cards at poker and blackjack tables or just cards that were substituted into these black jack and poker games by employess on the inside at these poker rooms and casino pits? if there are special cards involved then the industry focus on a resolution ought to be on equipment security (i.e. safe cards to play with) in order to slip bogus cards into a game on a regular basis many employees would have to be in on it. please clarify this for me please.

[BobbyAWS]

I quit going to rec.gambling.poker when that GCA guy turned the group up-side-down with a wide range of cheating allegations.

Most people WANT to believe that the reason they can't succeed is because they're being cheated. And that those lucky few who ARE successful didn't work hard to earn what they've got.

I mean, you can believe in that stuff, or you can work hard, study, and stay disciplined to make your game better. Which do you think is easier to do?

Bobby

[The Actuary]

The glasses were odd and unforgettable.....so naturally they lend themselves to any fictitious accounts. I'd like to hear the audio thats referenced.

[pokerjoe]

On the last hand of that tourney, Stuey comes over the top of his opponent. They both flopped a pair of aces, but Stuey is outkicked. He wins by getting lucky, hitting his kicker or a gutshot wheel, I forget which, but in any case, if he could read the backs, that's exactly the spot he'd save money in BY KNOWING HE WAS BEAT, AND FOLDING.

Which he did not do.

[Yobbo]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:[/size]<HR>Originally posted by pokerjoe:
On the last hand of that tourney, Stuey comes over the top of his opponent. They both flopped a pair of aces, but Stuey is outkicked. He wins by getting lucky, hitting his kicker or a gutshot wheel, I forget which, but in any case, if he could read the backs, that's exactly the spot he'd save money in BY KNOWING HE WAS BEAT, AND FOLDING.

Which he did not do.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is the play of last hand:
Approx chip count: SU 2300K JS 820K
sb SU - SU raises 40,000 and JS calls. The flop is Ac 5d 3h. JS bets 120,000, SU raises 800,000 and JS calls 630,000 all-in. SU shows Ah 4c and JS shows As 8c. The turn is the 3d and the 2s on the river makes a wheel for SU. SU wins the hand.
John Strzemp finishes 2nd and Stu Ungar wins the 1997 WSOP $10,000 No-Limit Holdem Final Event World Championship at 3:02 PM.

Looks like Stu did know what the other cards were and thought he could buy the hand with a raise. This is what happened on many hands before this one. Not once was a bluff made against a strong hand. Even if called he could win on the spot or if he lost continue to use his "advantage".

[heath]

PJ,

You are right about the "N" word and I apologized before (and do so again) for using it in reference to you.

You stated:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:[/size]<HR>There's this about cheats and poker: poker pros obsessively observe their opponents. And I find it difficult to believe that one can cheat at cards and never be the least bit hinky about it. I find it hard to believe I couldn't pick up a cheat's tells. But of course you can always hypothesize cheats so good they're undetectable, not just by the mechanics (I grant that undetectability) but by their personality<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You admit you couldn't detect a mechanic but you say you could detect cheating? Can you read "paper"?? Ever had a cooler put in on you?

In Atlanta there are plenty of bad to average cheats that most people wouldn't be able to spot -- how is one supposed to spot a world-class cheat? Special daubs, inks, killing the burn and turn -- signals, etc...

How are you supposed to spot all of this?

The real bad news for poker is that 80%+ of what these guys are claiming is true.

Poker pundits have publicly stated they believe some or most of what they claim.

I submit the following:

Anyone that learned to play in a public cardroom (no matter how good they play) is going to be susceptible to cheating.

Why?

The education comes in the private games. It was only after playing in private games for years that I learned most of this stuff and heard rumors about the other methods (cameras, etc).

A lot of people would feel better "turning off" these guys -- ignoring what they have to say. That's fine and anyone playing 40/80 or cheaper probably has nothing to worry about anyway

[pokerjoe]

Heath I don't believe there is (or at least was, before AC opened) a tougher, MEANER, home game circuit than Southern Maryland, which is where I cut my poker teeth. I know what you're saying. Great training ground (though thank G I'm out of there.)

But when I referred to picking up a cheat's tells, I specifically wasn't referring to their mechanics.

I'm referring to the "feel" of a game, and for a player.

Some of it is about their focus--if it's on the backs of cards, then, duh!

If there is collusion, there'll be a pattern of people being in certain games, even seats within those games, and a further pattern to their play.

If it's a dealer's mechanics (the scariest possibility) than I believe there will STILL be a tell, even from the best of them. Maybe in the way they can't make eye contact when you say hey. Maybe in the way he oh-so-briefly does make eye contact with a certain player in the game. Or the way that player carefully affects casualness. Something.

It's all about their focus. Especially, if they're watching out for who's watching them. You know: hinkiness. People who are watching out for being watched, are up to something.

I'm not saying I could always pick it up. But I believe, yeah, there'd be a "feel" to the spot. And if I couldn't pick that up, than, fine, F me.

[heath]

PJ,

I understand what you are saying.

However, when a couple of guys with top level playing skills decide to collude its pretty strong.

The obvious stuff like raising someone out of a pot doesn't happen too much. Playing top hand or knowing what your partner 3 seats behind you is going to do is strong enough to get the money if everyone's playing skill is about equal and no one else is cheating more.

Personally, I've never played higher than 40/80 or 5/10 PL in a public card room so I'm not that worried about it -- although this thing at RGP is pretty scary. The people there ought to be thanking the GCA instead of attacking. These guys are giving the world a heck of an education but some people just refuse to see the truth...

All this talk about contact lenses (never even heard of that) and cameras (what happened to jamming devices in the casino?) is pretty scary.

The one post on RGP about the guy playing in the main event at the WSOP in 97 and he had his lenses in, and all of a sudden boom the cards got put in and it freaked him out to the point of waking everyone else in the room and the next thing he knew everyone that owned a pair had them on... That's pretty wild if its true. If its not its a funny story and all these guys get A++ for their creative writing skills.

Dunno if that's true but the allegations are getting pretty steep.

I'm personally amazed at the level of denial by the people at RGP about it. I'm not saying 100% of what these guys claim is true but its painstakingly obvious to any clear-thinking person that's been around poker that these guys have a tale to tell...

[The Actuary]

I would like to think like PJ. As with all else the margins are slim, in a limit game one pot every 4 hours is enough to make a difference and obviously nl need only about one a day to make a difference. So it would seem very difficult to discern a huge deviation from standard play in the short term, seems if one continued losing he would avoid the game altogether thereby eliminating the long run.

The comical thing is the two are very similar to the player anyway. Whether it is explicit collusion or implicit familiarity the one new guy is done for regardless. As was posted earlier both are minimal at certain levels but for those of us who bounce around it is very important when ascending to be successful immediately or shortly thereafter and unfortunately to play in the 100/200 or 200/400 games around here, with the exclusion of major holidays and you'll need to evercome one or both of the obstacles.

TA