Unauthorized Transfer from my Neteller Account!

[kauphy]

i live in the u.s from what i,m reading its happening everywhere does not metter where you live so be carefull

[zychik]

A buddy of mine opened up a Neteller acct last week and got charged 207 on his credit card to deposit 200 bucks. Still can't access the account though as it has been closed since when the Neteller rep called him on his home phone to validate the acct he screwed up the sceurity question (forgot the answer). Now he's out 200 bucks. Says Neteller keeps telling him it's being investigated. He hasn't gotten the money back and he can't access the account. Isn't that frikin terriffic? Hope he eventually either gets his money back on his card or gets the account.

[JeffP]

I just logged into my Neteller account, looked over the update to US members (no it hasn't changed) and saw that I still can't withdraw my money.

I did however get 5000 NETPoints for filling out the following survey:

Gender: Male
Age: 46-50
Profession: Business Owner
How did you learn about NETELLER? Referred by a friend
How long have you been a NETELLER customer? More than 1 year
Which of our NETELLER Customer Service options have you used?
Telephoned Customer Service
Emailed Customer Service

On a scale of 1 - 5, with 5 being completely satisfied, how satisfied were you with the customer service you received?
5 4 3 2 1
1

On a scale of 1 - 5, with 5 being completely satisfied, how satisfied were you with your customer service representative?
5 4 3 2 1
1

Were all your questions answered in a friendly and courteous manner?
Yes No
No

On a scale of 1 - 5, with 5 being completely satisfied, how satisfied were you with using our NETELLER website?
5 4 3 2 1
1

Did you find any of the following sections of our web site unclear or in need of improvement?
Home Page
Sign Up
Deposit
Transfer
Withdrawals
Peer-to-Peer Transfers
None
I checked Withdrawals and Peer to Peer Transfers. Maybe it's me but I think Neteller could probably use a little improvement in these two areas.

How often do you purchase products or services on the internet?
All the Time, Often, Sometimes, Seldom, Never
All the Time

Would you recommend NETELLER to a friend?
Yes, Maybe, No
Umm, let me think... No

On a scale of 1 - 5, with 5 being completely satisfied, how satisfied are you with the services NETELLER provides?
5 4 3 2 1
Again I need a couple minutes to think Umm... 1


When it comes to making online cash transactions, what is most important to you?
Fast Service, Friendly Service, Value, Convenience, Security
Value

Do you have any comments or suggestions that may help us serve you better?
I typed in the following and hit the submit button:
Pay me and the thousands of other US account holders you have stolen from our phukking money!

And promptly received the following message:
You Have Received Free NETPoints
Thank you for filling out our Customer Service Satisfaction Survey. You have received 5000 NETPoints.

Question: Should I call up the VIP hotline now and ask if they can convert all my unused NETPoints to cash... or should I wait 6-8 weeks and give them time to work out the "technical issues" and clear any "volume backlogs?"

-jp

.

[BetMore]

Originally Posted by he scores

Did everyone that get a 10bet withdrawal attempt also download poker software at one time or another? That seems to be the common thread here. I've never downloaded or used any poker software, since I don't play poker. Is that the one commond thread?

I downloaded poker softwares before, but never at 10bet or Mansion.

[BetMore]

Does someone have the e-mail address of UK journalists that might be interested in the story of the Neteller scams? This thing is going to get out - I will do the best I can to hurt their reputation until they pay me. We are not talking about a shady internet company here, Neteller is listed on the London stock market for criss' sake.

What bothers me the most is that I e-mailed them and called them within minutes after the initial $10 withdrawal so the subsequent withdrawals could have been avoided if they had reacted right away.

[kauphy]

Originally Posted by JeffP

I just logged into my Neteller account, looked over the update to US members (no it hasn't changed) and saw that I still can't withdraw my money.

I did however get 5000 NETPoints for filling out the following survey:

Gender: Male
Age: 46-50
Profession: Business Owner
How did you learn about NETELLER? Referred by a friend
How long have you been a NETELLER customer? More than 1 year
Which of our NETELLER Customer Service options have you used?
Telephoned Customer Service
Emailed Customer Service

On a scale of 1 - 5, with 5 being completely satisfied, how satisfied were you with the customer service you received?
5 4 3 2 1
1

On a scale of 1 - 5, with 5 being completely satisfied, how satisfied were you with your customer service representative?
5 4 3 2 1
1

Were all your questions answered in a friendly and courteous manner?
Yes No
No

On a scale of 1 - 5, with 5 being completely satisfied, how satisfied were you with using our NETELLER website?
5 4 3 2 1
1

Did you find any of the following sections of our web site unclear or in need of improvement?
Home Page
Sign Up
Deposit
Transfer
Withdrawals
Peer-to-Peer Transfers
None
I checked Withdrawals and Peer to Peer Transfers. Maybe it's me but I think Neteller could probably use a little improvement in these two areas.

How often do you purchase products or services on the internet?
All the Time, Often, Sometimes, Seldom, Never
All the Time

Would you recommend NETELLER to a friend?
Yes, Maybe, No
Umm, let me think... No

On a scale of 1 - 5, with 5 being completely satisfied, how satisfied are you with the services NETELLER provides?
5 4 3 2 1
Again I need a couple minutes to think Umm... 1


When it comes to making online cash transactions, what is most important to you?
Fast Service, Friendly Service, Value, Convenience, Security
Value

Do you have any comments or suggestions that may help us serve you better?
I typed in the following and hit the submit button:
Pay me and the thousands of other US account holders you have stolen from our phukking money!

And promptly received the following message:
You Have Received Free NETPoints
Thank you for filling out our Customer Service Satisfaction Survey. You have received 5000 NETPoints.

Question: Should I call up the VIP hotline now and ask if they can convert all my unused NETPoints to cash... or should I wait 6-8 weeks and give them time to work out the "technical issues" and clear any "volume backlogs?"

-jp

.

love it you said a mouth full lmao kathy

[Minnow]

I know I am not understanding this fully.

Is this correct?

Thieves have access to many neteller members id numbers and secure ids procured (from scammers who buy and sell such databases) due to a "hole" in the merchant software API. This scam was do-able because many merchants stored customers personal nt info on their servers when customers made neteller transactions on their sites rather than from the neteller site.

Scammers are able to access neteller as if they were the merchant 10bet, and enter small requests to neteller using these databases of stolen personal account info, hoping to tap into funded accounts. If the $10+ requests clear, then they know they have a live one, and soon after make a larger request.

(gray area) The stolen funds do not actually go to the 10bet merchant account (?), but somehow are transferred directly to the thieves. The thieves then quickly "launder" the funds by transferring them to poker rooms where they purposely lose as fast as they can to accomplices.

I really don't understand why neteller doesn't freeze transactions from 10bet until they can ascertain that they are legit. They are allowing this to happen by playing dumb and accusing the victims themselves of being sloppy with their person info, ie falling for phishing scams, etc.

[marc]

Minnow,

Many of us knew for years that books were storing our neteller info. By the way, when you make a transfer from the merchant site, Neteller provides the merchant with the name on the neteller account, email associated with the neteller account, and the ip address.

When you consider how many sportsbooks close shop and how many clerks get fired year after year, it's shocking that there aren't more problems.

Here is my guess as to what these thieves are doing.

There seem to be 3 ways sportsbooks can configure the api link to neteller. 1)They can automatically let all requests go thorugh.
2) Before the requests is approved, they compare the name on the merchant account to the name on the neteller account and make sure they match.
3) Check the neteller account and see it is associated with any other account holders.

Just to give an example, lets say you wnat to send someone 1k. If you send it using neteller, neteller would charge you $19. Another way to do it, if it's a person you know and trust, is find a sportsbook that will let you dpeosit money directly inot your friends account. FOr instance, you used to be able to log into your firneds skybook account, and deposit money form your neteller account into his. Now skybook checks the neteller account, and when the system sees that you have use this neteller account with a different skybook account, it stops the transfer from going through.

My guess is that at 10bet, there is no security check. As long as the neteller account and secure id are a match, the transfer goes through. So they can spend all day pinging accounts via 10bet. Once they find an acocunt with money, they can go ahead and and set up the poker account.

The problem isn't really 10bet. Even if 10bet stopped it, they could just as easily use another merchant. The problem is that neither neteller nor the poker sites care. All anyone has to do is look at the poker logs and see who is winning.

If you just look at one case, you might not be able to discern who the chips are being dumped to. but when you have over a dozen peole who've been robbed, it's not difficult to see which player is always at the table winning.

But no one cares, because it is a lot simple to tell the player, that it's his fault. Security measures are only in place to protect neteller and the merchants, there are no security measures to protect players.

[Minnow]

I found the old thread where I asked about this.. Amazing how neteller went from trustworthy "bank" status, to what they are today..
Neteller Question

[SlipperyPete]

The attempt in my account was on Feb 9th after everything was frozen for the customers, yet some merchant or whoever COULD REQUEST MONEY FROM OUR ACCOUNTS??????
(the only reason they werent successful with me is that I never bothered to cancel the eft)

[JeffP]

Minnow, I believe what you described is EXACTLY what is happening.

The Neteller API makes it possible on the merchant side for money to be moved from an account. All they need is an account number and a secure id. They do not need your password.

It's a complete guess on my part, but I think most people didn't use Neteller as a place to keep their money. Just an avenue to move it. In my own case money would be in my account only for as long as it took me to either move it to a book or move it to my checking account. If anyone had my secure id they would have had to catch me during the 10 minutes or so when money was actually IN my Neteller account.

The thing is this didn't start happening until there were a lot of Neteller accounts with money sitting in them that customers couldn't move. If a thief has your account number and secure id under those circumstances you are literally a sitting duck.

From the perspective of a book, the book should be able to produce logs that show WHO was logged into the Neteller API at the time of the transaction. If it's a current employee then of course they have him. But, books have been downsizing. No? My guess is it has to be somebody who had compromised a database at one of the books and who was subsequently given his walking papers. Pure conjecture on my part, but given the weakness of the API that is the one scenario that makes the most sense to me.


-jp

.

[kauphy]

mine happened before they froze the accounts and i had no money in mine. but they used someone c-card to put alot of money in and then move it to other sites and then used my instant debit thing to put 505$ into my account and it went overseas from what i seen when i opened my e-mail and there was all these deposit i did,nt make. they even lifted money in my account 39$ and when i asked neteller about the use of a c-card not in my name they really had nothing to say. i,m sure they could have found out who the card belong to but they did nothing except look into for a week and then tell me i owed the money.