Its Official - Neteller gone for US players

[Rebel Yell]

Originally Posted by DrunkenGoon

For those that care, Neteller deposits by Canucks to Pinnacle still work.

LOL, Please don't rub it in.

[count zero]

I haven't used any of the other systems like FirePay and SolidPay. Can you transfer your Neteller balance into any of those?

[TheGuesser]

Neteller VIP told me any pending EFT's will take up to 2 weeks. You can also Still do EFT withdrawals if you're willing to wait that long. Checks will take up to to 8 weeks. If not willing to wait, Neteller ATM card can be sent and received in 3 days, with all applicable fees and limits.

[Dell Dude]

Hopefully those two NETeller guys fight this and force trial verdict. This is definitely not a slamdunk case. It would humiliate the Justice Department if they were acquitted. However, they probably plea bargain and and I couldn't blame them for that. Would cost a lot of money, take a lot of time and involve a lot of risk. But this indictment is very suspect on legal grounds. I still want to know where the ACLU is.

[StarnetGypsy]

Hockey ..

I communicated w/my friend I told you about and he said NT will be redepositing my withdrawal from them back into my account at the book there and then he will fire out one of their checks to me.

Just gonna take a little longer but what the hell ... at least I know he aint goin anywhere because they aint stupid and stay outta the US

[StarnetGypsy]

Dell ..

The ACLU has taken a backseat from what I have seen. In Washington state there was definately a precedence to be set when the state voted that it was against the law to "write about poker on the internet". Even the major newspapers in Seattle were writing articles poking fun at the legislature saying they'll probably be arrested for writing the article.

ACLU still hasn't risen to the occasion, and trust me, it's beyond me why not?

And from what we've seen so far w/re the authorities, the only case they've let get past them was Sportingbet's chairman, Peter Dicks, who was cut loose by the governor of NY "because internet gambling is not a crime in New York", and he wouldn't extradite him to Lousiana. I don't think DOJ is being as careless, and their cases are going to be airtight whenever the drag someone in? jmjo

[jjgold]

wsex still taking neteller deposits throw money in their

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Originally Posted by jjgold

wsex still taking neteller deposits throw money in their

You sure about that, skipper?

[homedog]

You are full of shit jj. WSEX is just like any other gambling site. You can't move funds from Neteller there.

Also, speaking of full of shit............the ACLU has always been and will always be a joke. Bunch of fucking morons. They pick their battles and there is a method to their madness.

[hockeystl]

Originally Posted by jjgold

wsex still taking neteller deposits throw money in their

WSEX is NOT processing NT deposits....I just tried.

[StarnetGypsy]

They pick their battles and there is a method to their madness

Not sure I'll ever understand what it is, Homedog? From what I've seen, they're self-serving and pick the most ridiculous cases imaginable ... and as you say, BS cases at that.

[StarnetGypsy]

Source: Neteller Arrests Bode Ill for Online Gambling (story has a couple links in the text that go to related stories).

Neteller Arrests Bode Ill for Online Gambling
Two of the company's former directors have been arrested as part of the U.S. government's crackdown on gambling Web sites
by Catherine Holahan

When President George W. Bush signed anti-online-gambling legislation into law last October, publicly traded gambling companies folded their cards and left the U.S. table. For instance, PartyGaming, the Gibraltar-based parent of once-leading gambling site PartyPoker, withdrew from the $6-billion-a-year U.S. market. Other companies traded on the London Stock Exchange, such as Sportingbet, followed suit, closing betting sites to U.S. customers and selling off other gambling businesses for $1 to whomever would take them.

However, the game wasn't over for all gambling sites. Private companies such as Antigua-based Bodog Entertainment Group, FullTiltPoker.com, and PokerStars.com kept their virtual doors open to U.S. customers. They took their cues, in part, from Neteller, a publicly traded Internet payment processor used by many online gambling sites, which was making a fortune from transaction fees paid by online bettors. Instead of closing its doors to U.S.-based online gamblers—and forgoing as much as 70% of the $846.7 million it made in fees during the first half of 2006 alone—the company took a wait-and-see approach.

Neteller got an eyeful on Jan. 15. That's when U.S. law enforcement officials arrested two of the company's former directors and founding shareholders, Stephen Lawrence and John Lefebvre. The U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York and the Federal Bureau of Investigation have charged that the two men helped transfer billions of dollars in illegal gambling proceeds from Americans to overseas Internet gambling companies. According to the complaint, more than 95% of the $7.3 billion processed by Neteller in 2005 were transactions involving Internet gambling companies. Lawrence's attorney, Peter Neiman of Wilmer Cutler Pickering Hale & Dorr, declined to comment. Calls to Lefebvre's attorney were not immediately returned.

Left in a Lurch
The moves demonstrate how far the U.S. government is prepared to take its crackdown on gambling, and they bode ill for the closely held Internet gambling sites that continue to cater to U.S. clients even after October. "In the eyes of the U.S. Justice Dept., what Neteller is doing is even worse [than the gaming companies] because they are acting like a bank and helping all this money leave U.S. accounts," says Christopher Costigan, president of the online gaming industry publication Gambling911.com, which initially reported the arrests. He speculates that Neteller will withdraw from the U.S. market.

The case focuses on sports bets placed by a then-Miami resident. According to a statement by an FBI agent involved in the case, the witness bet on National Football League games in August and September with gambling businesses based in Antigua and Costa Rica. In each case, the witness used Neteller to transfer funds. Unlike online poker bets, which are considered illegal by the Justice Dept., though not expressly banned by U.S. laws, sports betting is explicitly outlawed under the 1961 Wire Act (see BusinessWeek.com, 10/3/06, "Online Gambling Still in the Cards?").

The action against Neteller will likely leave the gambling companies that did not withdraw from the U.S. market in a lurch. As long as Neteller was processing payments, companies such as FullTiltPoker.com were able to continue business as usual. After all, many U.S. Internet gamblers were already using Neteller accounts to transfer funds between their checking accounts and online gambling sites because U.S. banks had stopped processing such transactions as early as 2001. Thus, gamblers already on the still-open-for-business private sites could simply continue playing. Those with accounts on sites closed to U.S. business simply needed to transfer whatever money remained with those sites to their Neteller accounts and then transfer the money again to an account with an open site (see BusinessWeek.com, 10/19/06 "Online Gambling Goes Underground").

Riskier Environment
Indeed, sites that remained open in the U.S. by processing payments through Neteller and other services experienced a jump in enrollment, thanks to reduced competition from PartyGaming's sites. While PartyPoker.com saw a 67% drop in its numbers between September and October, when the company withdrew from the U.S. market, FullTiltPoker.com had a 42% increase in audience, according to a November report by Nielsen//NetRatings (NTRT). The site's audience increased to 939,000 in December from 751,000 in November. The total U.S. audience for the top gambling sites, however, decreased 56%.

Meanwhile, PokerStars.com saw its audience jump to 1.5 million U.S. users in December from 1.4 million in November. Bodog.com saw an increase to 771,000 in December from 728,000 in November. Even PartyPoker saw an increase. The company's U.S. audience increased to 1.3 million in December from 1.18 million in November, according to Nielsen//NetRatings. PartyGaming says that all U.S. players visiting its site are involved in free games.

Without Neteller to process payments, the sites will have to rely more on other, smaller payment processors such as Instant eChecks and ePassporte to process U.S. transactions. However, now that the government has shown it is willing to go after payment processors, that would be risky. In addition, online gamblers may be more skittish about betting now that the state of their funds is in flux.

Eleventh-Hour Reprieve?
So far, Neteller says it has not stopped processing U.S. transactions, and it is not clear how the action against the company could affect U.S. customers. Similarly, it is not clear whether the gaming sites are considering dropping Neteller from their list of approved payment services. As of late in the evening on Jan. 16, neither PokerStars.com nor FullTiltPoker.com had taken Neteller off of their lists of approved services. There hands will be tied, however, if Neteller does in fact decide not to process U.S. gambling transactions.

Even if Neteller chooses to leave the U.S. market, however, it would not spell the end for all gambling companies. To date, U.S. law enforcement action has centered on sports betting. Other executives who have been arrested, such as BETonSPORTS Chief Executive David Carruthers, were involved in companies that processed U.S. sports bets (see BusinessWeek.com, 7/19/06, "Justice Gambles on Net Crackdown"). There is still a chance that online poker will receive a reprieve from the new law, which does not explicitly ban poker. Indeed, several U.S. land-based casinos have expressed interest in starting their own online poker sites that would be regulated by U.S. law, in a sign that not all hope is lost for the cause of U.S. online gambling.

Holahan is a writer for BusinessWeek.com in New York.

[Swish]

Neteller checks will take 8 weeks to receive or to clear when depositing at the bank? Why so long?

[StarnetGypsy]

Swish ..

Probably because the banks will send the check for collection before paying you. That does seem a bit long though as I've had to wait for checks to clear the UK and it took around 4-6 weeks. Can't blame them though considering the recent news uh?

NETeller did redeposit my withdrawal back into my gaming account pretty quick today, all things considered, and now I'll have to wait on a check to be mailed, and probably wait while it too is sent for collection in Cr (about 2/weeks for each).

Oh well ... that's what I get for hitting a 4/team parlay of underdogs, jeje

[clevfan]

NETeller quits U.S. after arrests

By Pete Harrison
LONDON (Reuters) - Money transfer firm NETeller closed its U.S. Internet gambling services on Thursday, wiping out over 65 percent of its business, after two of the group's founders were arrested there this week.

NETeller is the latest victim in a U.S. crackdown on online gaming, which began with the arrest of BETonSPORTS chief executive David Carruthers in Texas last July.

NETeller's two founders, Canadians Stephen Lawrence, 46, and John Lefebvre, 55, have been charged with handling billions of dollars in illegal gambling proceeds.

Both face a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison.

"The operations linked to U.S. gambling account for about 65 to 70 percent of sales," said a source close to the company.

NETeller said that after the United States effectively banned online gaming in November, it had experienced slowing fourth quarter growth.

Online gaming giants such as PartyGaming and Sportingbet pulled out immediately, but privately-owned rivals like Pokerstars, Full Tilt Poker and Bodog carried on taking wagers illegally, often using NETeller to process their payments.

NETeller has always said it was waiting to see the detail of the regulations before making a decision. It had its shares suspended on Tuesday after the two founders were arrested on Monday -- Lawrence in the U.S. Virgin Islands and Lefebvre in Malibu, California.

"Today's withdrawal from the U.S. market by NETeller is the culmination of months of careful planning," NETeller said in its statement on Thursday.

NEW FOCUS

Online gaming companies have been doing business for many years in the United States, where the law was discouraging but ambiguous until a ban in November. They were usually listed in London and located in offshore jurisdictions like Antigua and Costa Rica.

Money transfer companies like NETeller, based in the Isle of Man and traded publicly in Britain, allow gambling companies to transfer money collected from U.S. gamblers to bank accounts outside the United States.

U.S. prosecutors said NETeller processed more than $7.3 billion (3.7 billion pounds) in transactions in 2005 and more than 95 percent of its revenue from transfers involved Internet gambling.

Most online gaming executives and founders have avoided travelling to the United States since the arrest of David Carruthers and since Sportingbet's chairman Peter Dicks was arrested in New York in September.

NETeller's Lawrence and Lefebvre, who founded the company in 1999, did not heed the warnings of other executives.

Lawrence resigned as a non-executive director in October 2006 after stepping down as non-executive chairman in May. Lefebvre resigned as a non-executive director in December 2005.

Lawrence holds a 5.91 percent stake of NETeller through his investment vehicle Corvina, while Lefebvre holds 5.54 percent of the company through Eagle Medallion Fortress.

NETeller said on Thursday: "These decisions will allow the group to focus on opportunities available in the growing markets of Europe, Asia and the Americas outside of the United States."


Last Updated: 18 January 2007