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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2003, 08:36 PM
Tom0Co Tom0Co is offline
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,443
Default Oddsmaking services may drop out

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Earlier this month, the Nevada Gaming Control Board sent a letter to the state's casinos, advising them that they might see their number of oddsmaking consulting firms dwindle.

A bill passed in 1997 requires state licenses for all sports information services that sell odds to Nevada sports books. Four entities were grandfathered in: Las Vegas Sports Consultants, Don Best Sports, professional handicapper/odds consultant Ken White, and longtime Las Vegas bookmaker Eugene Buonantony.

First and foremost is Las Vegas Sports Consultants, the company founded by Michael "Roxy" Roxborough in 1982. LVSC is the biggest supplier of betting information in the state, sending its odds to 90 percent of the state's sports books, and also has clients all over the world. However, its current owner, CBS Sportsline Inc., which bought LVSC from Roxy in 1999, is trying to sell the company because of an agreement its parent company, CBS, made with the NCAA in February. CBS Sportsline agreed to sell its gaming interests in order to get the rights to run the NCAA's website ( and continue to televise the men's basketball tournament.

Gaming Control Board member Scott Scherer said Wednesday that CBS Sportsline has withdrawn its application to renew its oddsmaking license.

"They told us they have until the end of the year to sell the company, so they wouldn't be around to complete the licensing process," Scherer said. "Any buyer would then need to be licensed."

A new owner would be able to operate during the investigation process, which could take several months and even years, Scherer said.

As for the other oddsmaking companies, Scherer said Don Best Sports recently withdrew its renewal request, but that company mostly distributes odds instead of creating and selling its own. Scherer also said that White's license is up in the air.

"We haven't received a renewal request from him, and we're not sure if he's going to move forward," Scherer said.

Buonantony, who was most recently writing a weekly column for GamingToday newspaper under the name John Bennett, is on the Gaming Control Board's agenda to have his license renewed next month, and if the rest of the oddsmaking services fail to renew their licenses, he could become the only licensed seller of odds in the state.

Even if LVSC fails to renew its license, many bookmakers have downplayed the potential loss of an outside oddsmaker. While giving credit to how influential LVSC was 15 to 20 years ago when sports betting information wasn't as readily available and bettors had a better chance of getting it before oddsmakers could adjust, bookmakers say it's a service that has become less and less important. In addition, since Roxy sold the company, some bookmakers point to times that LVSC called them for help with lines.

The biggest loss for sports books would be the updated lines service that LVSC provides, in which they can monitor what other books are doing in real time.

While bookmakers would obviously be losing a tool should LVSC cease to exist, this could end up being good news for bettors.

One of the most common complaints about sports betting in Las Vegas is that all the books have the same odds. LVSC has done such a great job for so many years that a lot of books automatically put up the odds as they received them. As consolidation took over the industry, there were fewer and fewer places to shop for a different point spread.

But if LVSC closes shop and no one fills the void, every casino would be setting its own lines. You won't notice the difference as much in the NFL - mainly because pro football numbers are the easiest to set, plus the CRIS offshore book usually beats the Vegas books with the first line anyway, so that by Monday morning you pretty much have a consensus line for the following week's games. But there will be more differences in college football and then, especially, in college basketball and the NBA when winter rolls around.

Sports betting notes

The college football season kicks off Saturday with the BCA Classic between Kansas State and California. LVSC opened K-State at -27, and most books opened with that line along with 58 total points. The Stardust opened the line at -26 1/2 but it was quickly bet up and, as of noon Wednesday, was sitting at 27 1/2 along with just about every other book in town.

One exception was the Imperial Palace, which opened at -28 and was holding the line in anticipation of money on the high-powered Wildcats, who are known to run up a score or two in non-conference games under coach Bill Snyder. The game is at a "neutral site," of Arrowhead Stadium in Kansas City, but K-State should still have a huge home-field advantage. Even though it looks like the Wildcats are the play, I won't make it my first official wager of the season because that's just too many points to lay.

* Saturday's other game, Grambling at San Jose State, does not have a point spread available because Grambling is not one of the 117 "board teams" that are part of the Don Best rotation.

* The biggest fight in the relatively short history of women's boxing will be Saturday at the Mississippi Coast Coliseum in Biloxi, Miss. Laila Ali, the daughter of Muhammad Ali, is anywhere from a -450 (risk $4.50 to win $1) to -600 favorite over Christy Martin. Ali has the pedigree and size advantage and is 15-0 with 12 KO's. Martin has more ring experience, with a record of 45-2-2 with 30 KO's.

Saratoga and Del Mar

For the past few months, the Imperial Palace was the only race book in town to have a Travers future book. Race and sports book director Jay Kornegay said there wasn't much action taken the past few weeks, partly because of the uncertainty surrounding Funny Cide, and that the only horse his book had liability on was Wild and Wicked. Kornegay said he took a few bets on the Ken McPeek trainee at 20-1, which is what the morning linemaker at Saratoga made him Wednesday.

* In this space Wednesday, we mentioned Las Vegas horse racing fans taking short trips to Del Mar. The ink wasn't dry on those editions when it was learned that Bally's oddsmaker John Avello is in Saratoga this week for the Travers festivities, and that the Sam's Town team of Tony Paonessa, Norman Kelley, and radio hosts John Kelly and Patrick McQuiggan are going to the Del Mar races this Monday.

* Santa Fe Station is giving away two trips for two to Del Mar for the weekend of Sept. 6-7. Tickets for the drawing are earned for every $5 in parimutuel wagers made at the race book. They all go in a drum, and 25 tickets are drawn on Saturdays at 2 p.m. Winners must be present. The last two preliminary drawings are Aug. 23 and 30. After the final drawing, the 150 preliminary winners (25 each from six separate drawings) will be put in a drum and two will be drawn at 5 p.m. Each trip for two will include round-trip airfare on Southwest Airlines, a private box both days at Del Mar, one night at the Del Mar Hilton, and dinner at the Beach House in Cardiff by the Sea.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2003, 10:14 PM
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If the guys who work at LVSC were smart and enterprising, they'd quit working for the company and start their own linesmaking service. Why work for a boss and get a salary when you can gain autonomy and the lion's share of the money by running your own business?
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Old 08-21-2003, 10:53 PM
Maximo Maximo is offline
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 570

reno, I think the answer to that question may be that "there is strength in numbers". In other words, certain guys working on certain conferences. Did not someone say that they have a roundtable every week of about 12 guys to brainstorm about the following weeks games?
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Old 08-21-2003, 11:16 PM
thechin thechin is offline
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 261

i thought that some of the vegas guys here said that don best wasn't licensed and that is why the casino's weren't allowed to have don best's service -- even though, as some pointed out, some vegas bm's did watch it, just behind closed doors
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2003, 11:39 PM
d2b d2b is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 68

<< If the guys who work at LVSC were smart and enterprising, they'd quit working for the company and start their own linesmaking service. Why work for a boss and get a salary when you can gain autonomy and the lion's share of the money by running your own business? >>

Maybe because they get paid a nice SURE sum for their services whereas if they gambled on thier lines they'd be, well, gambling. For many people there is something to be said for knowing what you're going to take home to your family each week. I realize that if they're talented they probably make money in the ling-run but surely they can have losing months and even seasons and many cannot tolerate that from a primary source of income.
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Old 08-21-2003, 11:52 PM
Total Square Total Square is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,642

the DRF should have been embarrassed by all the errors in that article.

1. neither don best nor ken white have ever had a license.

2. eugene b. is NOT john bennet. he has never been a bookmaker.

3. books do not automatically out up lines sent by LVSC

4. oly beats cris with the opening numbeer every week

are we sure this piece wasnt in the NY Times??? was this piece run by a fact checker???

looks doubtful to me
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Old 08-22-2003, 12:11 AM
woody stephens woody stephens is offline
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 556

TS -- think you are wrong about KW
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Old 08-22-2003, 12:13 AM
Total Square Total Square is offline
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only two licenses have ever been granted from what i have been told. roxy, and eugene.

he defenitely does not have one now.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2003, 12:26 AM
woody stephens woody stephens is offline
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 556

From his Bio -- White broke into the Nevada handicapping scene as a ticket writer at the Santa Anita Race & Sports Book in 1984. He quickly moved his way up -- becoming the Sports Book Manager at the Freemont Hotel Race & Sports Book in 1987. In 1989, he became owner and operator of Nevada Sports Executives, (NSE) which is an oddsmaking firm that supplies betting lines, weather and injuries.

It is 2-1 from my aging memory that he does indeed have a license --- DB is another story and could never get one given the history of the infamous Black Book is just one generation away.
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Old 08-22-2003, 05:09 AM
Bobby C Bobby C is offline
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,202

You missed the biggest error of all, TS:

But if LVSC closes shop and no one fills the void, every casino would be setting its own lines.

Now THAT'S funny! Does anyone here dare to dream that would happen?

Doesn't Don Best have a few Vegas properties on thier screen? It's been a while, I don't remember. If so, can't they just hook up with the remaining big Strip properties? Then Vegas bookies can use DB, instead of Roxy's old screen, to see the numbers from around town.

Since the article quotes a NGCB member as saying, "(Don Best) mostly distributes odds instead of creating and selling its own," I presume that they would not need licensing for this.


(Tell Spiro to get his license application in, because now Vegas will join the off-shores in the "Oly cloning" dance.)
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Old 08-22-2003, 08:04 PM
OLD MAN OLD MAN is offline
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,751

I believe that DB is not licensed........and the screen cant be in the sports book.....but we ALL know better.......
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2003, 08:14 PM
Peep Peep is offline
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,977

I can't see who would care.

You can't copyright a number in any case.

And who ever makes the best number, be they book, player or service, wins.

Right now I think the offshore boys have more talent than LVSC in any case. I would put the players second.
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Old 08-23-2003, 02:45 AM
scott scott is offline
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 880

There was a two year window, 97-99, that you could apply for a license and be grandfathered in. The Gaming Commision called it "being registered" . LVSC already was in for a license at that time (not granted yet) and Eugene & Kenny also applied for just $5,000 per year. Kenny let his run out but Eugene is going through a costly licensing process and will almost certainly be on the Sept agenda & is a favorite to be licensed. Kenny is back in the picture with another group. He would need a license to operate since he let his "registration" expire. Whoever buys LVSC (Kennys group included) could remain in business because of the "registration" while they went for licensing. I'm not going to comment on Don Best.....ScottyS
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