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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2003, 03:10 AM
cerberus cerberus is offline
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Woody,

You said,

<< Your example shows you do not have a clear understanding of booking. The plus 400 which was 50 larger than most would be taking a stand. Going to 600 or your example of 800 would not be required to write all you wanted. >>


I am not a bookmaker, but nonetheless, your statement is ignorant.

If I offered a tennis match that was +50 higher than anywhere else, I would not be able to write all that I required. For arguments sake, let us say that I received $10,000 in wagers. If I were to offer a tennis match that was +300 higher than anywhere else, I would bet you that I would receive a lot more than $10,000 in wagers.

So, I think that it is safe to say that you know nothing about bookmaking.



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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2003, 03:11 AM
jjgold jjgold is offline
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wasn't a bad line period.

Sportsbooks make up the bad line rule after a player hammers them, a win win situation for books.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2003, 03:13 AM
jjgold jjgold is offline
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defination of a bad line is when a player or players cashes in heavy on a book they determine "oh the line was bad" void!!
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2003, 03:22 AM
woody stephens woody stephens is offline
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Cerberus,

You just dig you hole deeper. All the book is doing by going from 400 to 800 is increasing their exposure disproportionate to what would be necessary to "take a positon". Tennis would not normally be a huge handle but by your theory, the same books would be moving baseball lines 50 cents out of line to "take a position" ---- it is not necessary as hundreds of thousands of dollars are in waiting to go in action on a legitimate scalp of a nickel to a dime. You sir, when you have been around for a while will look back on this post and wonder how you could be so green. To offer a 400 scalp on anything is not taking a postion but rather writing a get out of town if it goes down "Suicide" position.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2003, 03:27 AM
woody stephens woody stephens is offline
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JJ,

Don't come to my barn, you do not have enough common sense to shovel horseshit.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2003, 03:27 AM
TheGuesser TheGuesser is offline
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<< Guesser I agree with everything in your post almost,
but still doesn't change the fact that the bettor knowingly took a shot at a bad line.

Do you think CBS posted it on purpose?
>>



TA, I don't know, but the fact they Dave stated they knew about it before the event started, yet didn't notify any players until 8 hours after the event shows CBS was taking a shot. Whether they did it on purpose or not, they made a mistake. Too many books make too many mitakes, and then use the bad line excuse to avoid responsibility for their mistake, rather than being more careful, or hire help to avoid such mistakes. That's why I respect Cascade's policy so much. It's the correct one, IMO.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2003, 03:35 AM
cerberus cerberus is offline
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Woody,

I guess you are a little slow. One more time, you said :

&lt;&lt; The plus 400 which was 50 larger than most would be taking a stand. Going to 600 or your example of 800 would not be required to write all you wanted. &gt;&gt;

If I were to hang a tennis line that was +50 higher than all other books, and received $10,000 in wagers, would I not receive more in wagers had I hung up a line that was, let us say, +200 higher? The obvious answer is yes, so your statement is wrong, period.

Then you go on and on, about 5 cent scalps in baseball, and the hundreds of thousands of dollars that would be bet, just to try and cover up your ridiculous statement.

Just to let you know, not all books take tennis, and if they do, the maximum wager is probably $1,000, if even that high.

As for taking a position, yeah you can take a STRONGER position, and you do this by bravely offering a much juicier, and enticing line than the competition. This is what I am doing now, when I offer this line,

WHAT IS WOODY'S I.Q.

Over 45 +5000
Under 45 -100
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2003, 03:36 AM
rocketman rocketman is offline
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Only just read this thread and dont visit the RX, but am assuming this is the game in question?

Eurobet do their own tennis pricing, they listed Nadal at +650...


23/06 00:00 UTC

Ancic, Mario vs Nadal, Rafael

Bet 365
Paddy Power
WitEuro
Nordicbet
Parbet
UNITEDbet
24hBET
Yahoops.com
WSEX
Betsson
SportOdds
SSP
BetInternet
Unibet
5 Dimes
PinnacleSports
Canbet
Centrebet
Carib Sports
BETDAQ
BETCRIS
Sporting Odds
Ladbrokes
Interwetten
MegaSB
Eurobet

122 400
122 375
122 475
122 360
121 440
120 395
120 395
120 400
120 430
120 430
120 450
120 395
120 400
120 415
119 510
118 535
118 462
118 465
118 430
118 510
117 480
117 450
117 450
115 380
115 399
105 750

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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2003, 03:52 AM
woody stephens woody stephens is offline
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Cerberus/Einstein


You said: "If I were to hang a tennis line that was +50 higher than all other books, and received $10,000 in wagers, would I not receive more in wagers had I hung up a line that was, let us say, +200 higher? The obvious answer is yes, so your statement is wrong, period."

Yea, Aces Gold hung a number on the Superbowl and had their Monday morning plane ticket which they had to use. Taking a position or having an opinion is one thing, a suicide positon is altogether another. The only thing that saved CBS in this situation was that it WAS TENNIS. Fact is that they only took 9 bets in 8 hours with a line that until the above post seemed to be out of wack by $200.

When you get through remedial booking, you will understand that it does not take huge variance to attract large volumns of money in major sports. In non major sports, you can hang a bad line and it may not get noticed. Fact is that if they only wanted the dog, they would not have to go way out of line. Anyone with a clue would play the dog with their plus 400 or not play the matchup at all. Thus, they would be taking a position without the additional exposure.

Now, I am sure you will not understand this either, so , I will just say, keep you day job. I am sure if you keep accurate records you consider this a hobby and seldom see a plus number at years end.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2003, 03:57 AM
FatFrank FatFrank is offline
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The *least* betCBS should do is pay the full amount of the bet (1000.00) @ +400...

OTHERWISE -- they are a Shit Book and should be avoided.

If you have $$$$ with betCBS you should be gettin' the hell out. The 'run on the bank' will be tough for them to survive during this time of year.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2003, 05:08 AM
Sqrchris Sqrchris is offline
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Any book that tries to justify taking a bet and not paying after the event unfolds is bad business, unprofessional, and arrogant. Isnt this another book Reality endorses? I am shocked by the stance taken by CBS, I gave them the benefit of the doubt when this story first came to light-but this decision is wrong. Your making excuses to why not pay the player. You never hear Spiro doing this...

If the bet would have lost, would the players money been returned? Would he have gotten half his money back? Its not fair to make the rules after the fact, and while you have the players money.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2003, 05:11 AM
Bucky Bucky is offline
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Thanks Rocketman for the lines - I see these are European odds so the 750 was really a 650 etc. These unwritten rules - they are getting more important than the written ones.





<< When you swim with sharks don't bleed - Harvey MacKay >>

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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2003, 05:38 AM
woody stephens woody stephens is offline
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Certainly, The real issue is that the books have the rule that allows them to cancel bets after they are accepted. This rule is horseshit. Until it goes back to the old school that when a bet is booked it is a bet, there will always be questions surround cancellations. Us old school guys believe that when you book it you pay it. But, all offshore joints have the cancellation rule. And we as players accept their rules.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2003, 06:05 AM
KidVegas KidVegas is offline
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Dave is a liar. His response is so phony. No doubt BetCBS were asleep at the wheel. They took a hit and they used the bad line excuse. I recall someone saying Pinnacle had the dog at +435 so if somebody saw a +605 they would just think they had a scalp opportunity. The fact that they paid 5 players in full and then shortchanged others tells me they are now a stiff joint.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2003, 06:13 AM
TTinCO TTinCO is offline
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<< But, all offshore joints have the cancellation rule. And we as players accept their rules. >>



The only way to make this rule legitimate is to put a line threshold AND a timeframe threshold on it. Until then, all players are at the mercy of the integrity of their book.


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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2003, 06:26 AM
Scooter Scooter is offline
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JJ is right. This is a book to boycott.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2003, 08:08 AM
rocketman rocketman is offline
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The bets needed to be cancelled BEFORE the game.
End of story, pay up!
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2003, 08:10 AM
rocketman rocketman is offline
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What price was Ancic at BetCSB at the same time Nadal was +605?
That will give you the answer whether the bets should be cancelled AT ALL...

This is far simpler than CBS make it out to be.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2003, 09:31 AM
areeff areeff is offline
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The line at BetCBS was +605/-800

As was posted Eurobet had +650. I'm in jamaica right now but can someone call eurobet and asked them if they paid the +650 winners. No doubt they will say yes whether they did or not but it would be interesting.
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