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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2004, 06:40 PM
ten_teamer ten_teamer is offline
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Default Question for good blackjack players - Does a poor blackjack player hurt the entire table ?

I like to go to the nearby riverboats a lot and pretty much the only games I will play are 3 card poker aor BlackJack. Lately, I have noticed that there seem to be fewer and fewer 3 card poker tables and when you do find one it is packed. So I have begun to play pretty much blackjack only. The one thing I dont like about playing this game is that there will always be arguments where 1 player thinks another player is screwing everything up by hitting at the wrong time or not hitting when he should. Sometimes these argumenst get very heated and close to coming to blows.

I have heard many so called professional BJ players comment that you should enevr play at a table with a guy who is clueless because his bad playing will cause your chances of winning to become less ( it supposedly gives the house a greater advantage ). Is this a common belief held by BJ players ? It seems to me that another players actions have no effect on how you do in the long run. Sure it sucks when you bet $200 and you have 19 and the dealer has 16, then the last player hits his 15 busting with a 10 and then the dealer ( who would have busted with that 10 ) draws a 4. Of course that sucks, but isnt it just as likely that the last players stupid move will screw the dealer over as it is that it will screw the player over ?

Does a poor blackjack player really hurt the enire table in the long run ??

Thanks.
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Old 06-26-2004, 06:45 PM
big action big action is offline
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Default RE:Question for good blackjack players - Does a poor blackjack player hurt the entire table ?

Ten Teamer..........I have heard this topic discussed from every angle. I tend to think that the blade cuts both ways and many times I have been "saved" by bad play.
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Old 06-26-2004, 06:47 PM
mlp2512 mlp2512 is offline
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Default RE: Question for good blackjack players - Does a poor blackjack player hurt the entire table ?

tenteamer,

I said I was sorry for hitting that 15 already, cant we just drop it???

M.
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Old 06-26-2004, 06:47 PM
sportman
 
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Default RE:Question for good blackjack players - Does a poor blackjack player hurt the entire table ?

In the long run...yes indeed.

Gotta keep the casino edge as low as it can go.
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Old 06-26-2004, 06:48 PM
ten_teamer ten_teamer is offline
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Default RE:Question for good blackjack players - Does a poor blackjack player hurt the entire table ?

Yeah I think it balances out in the end. It just seems that most players will be a lot quicker to get mad when dumb play costs them $200 then they will be to realize when it helps them win $200.
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Old 06-26-2004, 06:49 PM
ten_teamer ten_teamer is offline
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Default RE:Question for good blackjack players - Does a poor blackjack player hurt the entire table ?

sportman,

How can it raise the house edge in the long run ?

I know that many good players say it does, but I dont see how its more likely to hurt the player than help the player.
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Old 06-26-2004, 06:50 PM
ten_teamer ten_teamer is offline
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Default RE:Question for good blackjack players - Does a poor blackjack player hurt the entire table ?

mlp2512,

I will never forgive you.
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Old 06-26-2004, 07:24 PM
materialflorida materialflorida is offline
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Default RE:Question for good blackjack players - Does a poor blackjack player hurt the entire table ?

helps you a ton in the long run. the more bad plays by others the more the casinos make and the more comps and better rules you can expect. Makes no difference to your play, the next card does not know who just made what move.
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Old 06-26-2004, 08:16 PM
Handyman Handyman is offline
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Default RE:Question for good blackjack players - Does a poor blackjack player hurt the entire table ?

It all evens out in the long run...

Only affects the dumb $hit who hits on 12 when the dealer shows a 6 [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
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Old 06-26-2004, 09:25 PM
hockeystl hockeystl is offline
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Default RE:Question for good blackjack players - Does a poor blackjack player hurt the entire table ?

Quote:
Originally posted by: ten_teamer
Does a poor blackjack player really hurt the enire table in the long run ??
Absolutely not.

Link to BJ21.com article

All you ever needed to know about Blackjack
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Old 06-26-2004, 09:35 PM
Rookies Rookies is offline
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Default RE:Question for good blackjack players - Does a poor blackjack player hurt the entire table ?

I don't know about the numbers.

But, I sure as hell don't want to see jackasses playing at the table. Unless they are one big mofo, they get the picture really quick and leave ! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

However, this is not to be confused with the situation of the dealer drawing his ass off to 4 & 5 carders. Then, the hammer should let the table know that they are trying to try something a little different to change the run. At least, I've done that and it's been done at tables I play at. And I'm not talking about drawing against 16 with a 15 ! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img]

Rather, something like NOT taking a card on 16 when the dealer has 9/ 10 ( and hoping he has shite in the hole. )
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Old 07-01-2004, 04:03 AM
hockeystl hockeystl is offline
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Default RE:Question for good blackjack players - Does a poor blackjack player hurt the entire table ?

Here's a great writeup on this topic:

THREE COMMON BLACKJACK VOODOO MYTHS AND PLOPPY SUPERSTITIONS

Voodoo Superstition #1 – “You shouldn’t play with bad players at the table.”

Whether they play well or badly, it has no long-term effect on your results. Sure, a stupid play made by a stupid player may sometimes affect the immediate hand being played. But, in the long run, bad players have no effect on your results. To think otherwise is to succumb to voodoo superstition.

For most new players, playing at reasonably low stakes with no “cover” needs, it’s important to have as few other players at the table as possible, to maximize your hands per hour. Preferably, of course, there are NO other players at your table.

However, whether another player is a good one or a bad one (and the bad ones outnumber the good ones by at least a 100-1 margin!) should make no difference to you. You shouldn’t even be aware of how other players play, except to count their cards. Tough to do at first, but eventually, it will become automatic

Voodoo Superstition #2 – “The player at third base ‘took the dealer’s bust card.’”

Again, voodoo superstition. This is actually an extension of Voodoo Superstition #1. The play of the player at third base has no greater effect than the play of any other player at the table. It’s just more obvious, since it’s easier to deduce what card the dealer “would have gotten” or “wouldn’t have gotten” if the third base player had played the hand differently. But, again, in the long run, the play of the third base player has no effect on your results.

Voodoo Superstition #3 – “A counter should always sit at third base.”

When counting, it’s slightly helpful to sit at or near third base, if you’re forced to play with other players at the table, so you can see more cards before it’s your turn to make a playing decision. However, it’s not always possible, and has the negative aspect that pit personnel frequently think, “Counters always sit at third base,” and therefore may scrutinize your play more than they might otherwise.

The long-term effect of where you sit at the table on your Expected Win Rate is negligible.

To become a successful player, you must overcome any belief in voodoo myths and ploppy superstitions.
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Old 07-01-2004, 07:41 AM
tuleythetout tuleythetout is offline
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Default RE:Question for good blackjack players - Does a poor blackjack player hurt the entire table ?

Ditto that last post.

People who buy into that nonsense always seem to focus on the times they get screwed and never on the times they're helped (as if they would have won those hands anyway). What a lot of people don't acknowledge is that often a "wrong" play will alter the future distribution of cards, too, so you would need a NASA computer to go back and see on the space-time continuum if those bad moves really cost you more.

As several people have pointed out, in the long run, the bad player just hurts himself.
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Old 07-01-2004, 10:56 AM
The Actuary The Actuary is offline
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Default RE:Question for good blackjack players - Does a poor blackjack player hurt the entire table ?

I like to play with *bad* players-

less heat for me,

most hit too much rather than stay too much so they expose more cards,

lastly, they are usually the ones having the best time in the casino-and casino gambling is by and large a social activity.
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Old 07-01-2004, 12:08 PM
jls626 jls626 is offline
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Default RE:Question for good blackjack players - Does a poor blackjack player hurt the entire table ?

Its one of those NO,NO,NO,NO,NO,YES things,lol!
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2004, 03:20 PM
Mr. Baseball Mr. Baseball is offline
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Default RE: Question for good blackjack players - Does a poor blackjack player hurt the entire table ?

I have been blessed and cursed by these "bad" players...I just think you have to play your cards the best way you know
how and let the "chips" fall as they may
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Old 07-01-2004, 06:45 PM
Degenerate Degenerate is offline
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Default RE:Question for good blackjack players - Does a poor blackjack player hurt the entire table ?

I've seen it work both ways. Played once with a table of chain smoking Indonesians who ALL played backwards, sideways, you name it. Actually won a little that time, lol.
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Old 07-01-2004, 06:56 PM
XXGameXX XXGameXX is offline
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Default RE: Question for good blackjack players - Does a poor blackjack player hurt the entire table ?

IT works both way

BUT it slightly leans towards IT HURTS YOU

Reason why
what TA
Bad players tend to hit more

So if the count is positve AND YOU HAVE YOUR LARGE BETS DOWN
and you plan on doubling down
and IDIOT PLAYER TAKES A HIT when he was not supposed (A BETTER CHANCE OF A HIGH CARD WILL BE DEALT)
and less of a chance for you to get it
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2004, 08:48 PM
sportman
 
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Default RE:Question for good blackjack players - Does a poor blackjack player hurt the entire table ?

I find that players tend to "stay" instead of hit... I usually will catch their 4 or 5 on my double downs. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
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