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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2002, 06:02 AM
shoebox shoebox is offline
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Default Yao Ming, the next Allen Iverson?

I must admit I didnt read through the yao ming-magic johnson thread but I couldnt stop laughing about the title of the thread. Yao Ming being compared with Magic is comical, Magic a point guard and Ming a center, how can they be compared. Yao the next: Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Walton, Russel, Hakeem, Ewing, etc... I can handle, but Magic, lmao. I thought the title of my thread is just a funny. later guys.
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Old 12-21-2002, 08:03 AM
Railbird Railbird is offline
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Shoebox,


Magic Johnson was the perfect comparison, obviously you havent seen him play, the guy has made the 5 best passes of the year including the best one I have ever seen on a give and go deflected handball pass. He is much smarter than Iverson and much more dominating than Iverson.

Most people dont appreciate him, because they dont know basketball, but I guarantee you Bobby Knight appreciates him, he does so many things without the ball, he stops dribble penetratrion constantly. I think the citizens of the United States are too pathetic to realize greatness, the world is too selfish, the world only cares about themselves and nobody else, the world only cares about there own money and there own selfish desires, I am sick and tired of these sumbag sportfans. Golf and womens tennis our the only watchable sports because of this.


Yao Ming makes these other players look so stupid its comical, he is like Vincent Van Gogh and everyone else is finger painting, he dwarfs them in more ways than one.
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Old 12-21-2002, 01:41 PM
Oakley Oakley is offline
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"Now somehow I've learned to actually laugh at the idiot Walton, but it's blasphamy to compare this guy to the great Magic Johnson (Maravich was before my time but I'm sure its just as ridiculous to compare him to Pete as well)."

That was my second sentence in the thread.....wish you had posted in the thread because there are a lot of morons out there who think Ming is better than he actually is. Call it mob mentality if you will.

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Old 12-23-2002, 01:50 PM
Spearmaster Spearmaster is offline
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Don't know who you're calling a moron but I'd sure love to know where your info comes from.

And forget this BS "mob mentality" stuff - early in the season the "mob" consisted of two.
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Old 12-23-2002, 09:55 PM
Oakley Oakley is offline
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Spearmaster,

Anyone that believes at this short stage in his career that Yao Ming is destined to be a superstar is just plain ignorant imo. Yao Ming is a good player that has the potential to be an all star and perhaps more. He will not however revolutionize the way the game is played.

I find it funny that 2 rookies are doing incredible things this year in the NBA and nobody ever mentions them, while Yao Ming sneezes and the announcer comments "That by far has to be the greatest sneeze I have ever seen"

Amare Stoudemire, straight out of high school is playing much better than KG, TMac or Kobe did when they first entered the league. He just turned 20 and doesnt have the international experience that the 22 year old Ming has. This guy could dominate the league in years to come.

Dejuan Wagner, a 19 year old with 1 year of college under his belt has ability thats out of this world. You watch his game and you could swear that this guy is the 2nd coming of Allen Iverson.

What I am saying is, why all the Yao Ming greatness talk? Why is nobody talking about the things that Stoudemire and Wagner are doing out there on the court. Doesn't take a genius to figure out why.

BTW, superstars take more than 8 shot attempts per game. Thats how many Ming averages this season.
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Old 12-24-2002, 02:23 PM
Spearmaster Spearmaster is offline
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I think we've been over this before. International experience counts for nothing in the NBA - or even the NCAA.

Choo Choo Boba from Timbuktu plays in a match against Jo Jo Mama from Xanadu. They can both claim international experience. And both of them will find themselves on their asses about 3x per minute in either the NBA or the NCAA.

Meanwhile, both Stoudemire and Wagner, whose abilities are certainly well above average, have played ball in the US since they were BORN. Yao Ming comes in from a basketball wilderness by comparison - and had he played against Stoudemire or Wagner anytime in the first few weeks they would have made him look like baby shit. No doubt about that either.

Given the fact that Yao Ming now has to learn a new brand of basketball, somethine WAY beyond anything that international experience can teach him, he is playing out of his skin already after just a couple of months.

Superstars do not take 8 shots a game, that's bullshit. Superstars do whatever it takes to help their team win. Yao Ming may not be flashy or a super-duper crowd pleaser but there is no doubt that he has already had a profound influence on his teammates. And that is worth far more than Kobe shooting 50 points in a losing effort if you ask me.

Now if you find that ignorant, so be it - but frankly I think you need a little more worldly seasoning. And by the way, I like the way you qualify both of your statements with the word "could".

Yao Ming WILL be a dominant force, period.
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Old 12-24-2002, 04:11 PM
Oakley Oakley is offline
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Yao Ming will be a dominant force period? So there is simply no debate? Yao Ming is destined to be a first ballot hall of famer? He is destined to lead his team to championsip after championship ala Jordan, Magic, Bird and Russell? After watching him for 30 games you can tell that without a doubt Ming will be a dominant force in the NBA?

And you think Amare Stoudemire at the age of 19, with only US high school experience is more prepared to play in the NBA than Yao Ming? Tell me something, what would you make the line today if Oak Hill Academy played the best team in the Chinese basketball league? If you really think that at the age of 19, Stoudemire is more prepared to play right now in the NBA than the 22 year old Ming is...well I have nothing to say to that then.

Just so I understand....Stoudemire and Wagner are "well above average" and Ming "will be a dominant force period".

Yeah ok big guy...whatever you say.
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Old 12-24-2002, 04:23 PM
Peckle Peckle is offline
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I'll admit that I was too harsh on Yao Ming after only 5 gms!!! I'm a big rockets fan, and we had high hopes after getting Ming as the #1 pick!!!!![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

You have too admit that Ming looked totally lost out there the first 5 gms...He looked SLOW and weak!!!! You've got pesky guards running around inside thru MING...I remember a little guard dunking on Ming and he fell back on his ass!!!

But now I'm a believer!!!!! It seems like he transformed into a monster overnight!!!!! Dunking and swatting away pesky guards trying to go inside!!! Also, I agree with Railbird, this guy makes beautiful passes for a big man...

Rudy T made a mistake yesterday by sitting Ming out for the 1st half of the 4 th quarter...This allowed Utah to create havoc inside the paint and getting tip-ins on offensive rebounds...also, Ming doesnt get enough shots with moochie and mobley jacking up bricks!!!!

I will go out and buy a Yao Ming jersey today along with 200 other million chinese!!!![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif[/img]
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Old 12-24-2002, 07:51 PM
Hoops Hoops is offline
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He averages 8 shots per game because the first few weeks of the season, he wasn't getting more than 20 minutes per game. Lame example of how to categorize a superstar...hard to shoot much if you aren't playing. Since the beginning of December when he's been starting and getting 30+ minutes every night, he's averaging around 13 shots per game. A player that tall with the kind of talent he's displayed so far has a much bigger upside than Stoudamire or Wagner (he needs to shoot almost twice as much to get the same kind of scoring production as Ming).
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Old 12-24-2002, 08:42 PM
Oakley Oakley is offline
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In the month of December:

Amare Stoudemire:

13 games
Averaging 9.5 fga/game 13.6pts/game

Yao Ming:

11 games
Averaging 11.8 fga/game 17.5pts/game

Compare big man to big man, its moronic to compare the shooting percentage of a 6'2" guard to a 7'5" centre (Iverson shoots a much lower percentage than Ming, does that mean that Ming is the superior player.

You completely miss my point. Ming is a talented player with an upside. So are Stoudamire and Wagner. Stern being the marketing genius that he is has convinced everyone that Ming will revolutionize the game. With Jordan retiring, Stern needs Ming to sell tickets. Stoudamire's play, straight out of high school has been just as much of a surprise as Ming's play thus far. But believe what you want. David Stern and Russ Granik thank you.




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Old 12-24-2002, 08:57 PM
biff's almanac biff's almanac is offline
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Oak-Stern isn't about selling tickets,he's the point man on a grand international marketing scheme. He will use Yao to sell billions of dollars of tv time,soft drinks and nikeconversereebok shoes to the vast untapped chinese market. Look for Houston to advance deeeeeep in the playoffs if you know what I mean.
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Old 12-24-2002, 09:30 PM
Oakley Oakley is offline
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Biff, yes that's what I meant by saying Stern is a marketing genius. I agree 100% with you.



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Old 12-24-2002, 10:42 PM
parlayin parlayin is offline
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How did Stern "convince everyone that Ming will revolutionize the game?" He didn't do the convincing...Ming himself did, with his play. If by "convincing," you mean he put him in the national spotlight against the Pacers, it still requires the player to perform. When Ming was messin up his first few games, nobody was brainwashed because of marketing. Did people insist then that he'd be a great player? You make it seem like without the NBA's marketing of Ming, he wouldn't even be recognized. How can you dispute what he has done as a player though? If a 7' 5" American guy did the things Ming has done so far this early into the season, he'd be swimming in accolades too. I don't think you can say he's a product of campaigning. If they needed to reach the international marketplace so badly, why didn't they promote Wang Zhizhi or Bateer last year? Obviously, it's because they didn't demonstrate the talent and upside Ming has. What I'm saying is that sure, the league likes to promote its superstars. But they won't promote some nobody with no game. They promote a lot of up-and-comers, like AI, Kobe, T-Mac, etc. But they only do so once they've demonstrated proficiency. It's not like they had to CONVINCE people they could score and were capable of brilliant play. When everyone was clowning on Ming early on and then flip-flopped, was that because Stern suddenly convinced them of that? That's laughable
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Old 12-25-2002, 02:03 AM
Spearmaster Spearmaster is offline
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No argument about the marketing hype - this is a given.

Yao Ming is already proving himself as a dominant force - there is no way you can deny that. And I didn't just say that Stoudemire and Wagner were just "well above average" and that they wouldn't become dominant players either - I pointed out that they have the experience of playing American-style basketball. You seem to miss this point entirely.

International experience is worthless, so please don't try to hold that up as the reason why Yao Ming seems better than the other two - Yao Ming actually has a lot more GROWING to do than the other two, and with the limited exposure to US-style basketball he has already proven that he is not only capable and adaptable, but will continue to get much better.

Parlayin, exactly [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

For the record, Oak Hill would probably kick the asses of the Chinese national team minus Yao Ming, but including everyone else. With Yao Ming included, it would be much closer. And just so I can show that we did NOT miss your REAL points:

<< Anyone that believes at this short stage in his career that Yao Ming is destined to be a superstar is just plain ignorant imo. >>



<< That was my second sentence in the thread.....wish you had posted in the thread because there are a lot of morons out there who think Ming is better than he actually is. Call it mob mentality if you will. >>

Peckle - glad to see you have had a rethink. And yes, he wasn't worth a whole lot the first few games - because he had NO US EXPERIENCE. His INTERNATIONAL experience counted for ZERO.
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Old 12-25-2002, 06:08 AM
parlayin parlayin is offline
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About the whole Oak Hill vs. Chinese National Team debate, how is it obvious that the high school team would kick their asses? In the 2nd meeting in the world championships earlier this year between the two squads, the Chinese team was leading the American team (comprised of mostly NBAers) for all but the last 6.5 seconds of the first half. Could Oak Hill have done this? It's possible, but to say that Oak Hill would trounce on the Chinese team is presumptuous.

Secondly, at the 2001 World University Games, China fought back from an 11-point deficit late in the game to defeat a USA team comprised of top collegians that are now in the NBA like Juan Dixon, Lonny Baxter, Melvin Ely, and Dan Dickau. This ended USA's 46-game winning streak at the Games. The Chinese team took home the silver medal, and Yao was only the 24th leading scorer in the tournament, so it's not like it was all him. Wang Jinsong was the leading scorer in the whole tournament. So if the Chinese team beat the top collegians that are now NBA players a year ago, how can you say a high school team that's only sending 3 players to Division I schools (I think that's what they said during the Lebron James game) would romp them? It's funny how people like to make blanket statements based on stereotypes.
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Old 12-25-2002, 12:46 PM
Spearmaster Spearmaster is offline
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I did say without Yao Ming, and his scoring rate is not the key to the game, as most of you have seen by now. With Yao Ming the result would be unpredictable. Without him the Chinese National team are probably not worth a whole lot, despite some quite good players like Wang Jinsong and Wang Zhiyi.

By the way, it's not a stereotyping issue either. I know sports in Asia pretty damn good - and I am Asian myself. I actually get to WATCH the Chinese basketball league as well.

Trust me. Without Yao Ming the Chinese National team would have had a very difficult time in the WCs. Very few believed me when I said that Yao Ming would live up to the hype three months ago. So why would I be afraid to stick my neck out again and say that Oak Hill would probably kick the Chinese National team's asses?
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Old 12-25-2002, 02:33 PM
biff's almanac biff's almanac is offline
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Oak Hill would lose to the Chinese National team by 40 pts. They are a very good high school squad,but a high school team none the less. Further , a Chinese national under 18 team would rout Oak Hill. Fundamental and teamwork still matter. Ethnocentrics will find this hard to believe but international play is making leaps and bounds while American kids are practicing 360 tomahawk jams and chest pounding for the cameras while international players are refining team defense and moving on offense without the ball.
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Old 12-25-2002, 03:14 PM
Spearmaster Spearmaster is offline
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Well, Biff does have a point there. The Chinese certainly work well as a team. But I highly doubt Oak Hill is just another bunch of hotshots - you don't get to be highly rated without having the essential elements as well.

Still, Biff may have hit on the reason why the US has performed so poorly in international competition of late. But if you ask me, this is an anomaly - I hope that what Biff said about practicing 360 degree tomahawk jams is NOT the norm.
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