BLACK JACK ... beatable?

nehpets · 02-11-2003, 12:07 PM

can someone explain how blackjack is beatable

The Actuary · 02-11-2003, 01:26 PM

In BJ, the player has an advantage when he can expect to predominantly receive tens and aces.

Either by counting the cards dealt and figuring when a higher ratio of tens & aces vs low cards left,

or tracking the shuffle and trying to follow where the clumps of aces and tens ends up.

if interested I'd recommend "Million Dollar Blackjack" by Uston, it's great book, full of counting techniques, anecdotal stories and advice, however it is about 25 years old and doesn't include much about shuffle tracking. Not sure of any texts strictly about that, but there are software programs available that simulate most types of BJ shuffles and can show you what to expect and where to expect certain clumps of cards.

GL
TA

jdodger · 02-11-2003, 10:05 PM

And if you're trying to beat on-line blackjack, forget it.

Each hand is always from a freshly re-shuffled (electronically) deck-so there is nothing to count and no "shuffle" analysis that I'm aware of.

And that's assuming the "Internet Casino" is using legit software that is based on a shuffled 52-card deck, as opposed to some kind of algorithm that is calculating payout ratios.

ChuckyTheGoat · 02-12-2003, 12:05 AM

Nephets:

Briefly, tracking tens can tell you when the remaining deck is rich or poor in tens. Knowing the remaining distribution can tip you off to when you have a +$ Expected Value hand. A disproportionate ratio of remaining tens is good for the player, since you hit more blackjacks, your doubles work better, and the dealer busts more often. You need to bump up your bet for these hands. The high card/low card distribution can also dictate best strategy for when to hit/stand/double/split, etc. Of course, the high/low count is only an approximation. A supercomputer that could calculate millions of possibilities/probabilities per second could tell you IDEAL STRATEGY, based on the remaining denominations.

To summarize, under ideal conditions, the game is beatable. You can in theory generate a slight edge. Problem is that rules of most games suck nowadays. Maybe there are games out there waiting to be plucked, but I haven't seen em.

littleogre · 02-13-2003, 01:45 AM

<< And if you're trying to beat on-line blackjack, forget it.

Each hand is always from a freshly re-shuffled (electronically) deck-so there is nothing to count and no "shuffle" analysis that I'm aware of.

And that's assuming the "Internet Casino" is using legit software that is based on a shuffled 52-card deck, as opposed to some kind of algorithm that is calculating payout ratios. >>

There are a couple online casinos that allow counting. The only one that i play at is gpc they do not use an auto reshuffler unless you play single deck.

OH LUCKY ME · 02-14-2003, 12:22 AM

littleogre, what casino is that?

Crazy Jivin Ivan · 02-14-2003, 04:33 AM

which sportsbooks casinos are reliable?

Crazy Jivin Ivan · 02-14-2003, 04:33 AM

which sportsbooks casinos are reliable?

littleogre · 02-15-2003, 12:41 PM

<< littleogre, what casino is that? >>

It stands for global player casino.

Number Freak · 03-19-2003, 01:27 AM

In any format, BJ is beatable without counting. Money management is a great tool to overcome the odds assuming you have a sound concept of the do's and dont's regarding strategy.

Although I have played it extensively, I would warn against online BJ. I have learned to become very skeptical of online card games because it seems they can pop up any cards they want against you and I have had some extremely bad sessions where my win % was in the 30's or low 40's over 1,000+ hands which, IMO, should never happen if you have a sound concept of the rules.

I wish I lived near a casino!

nino brown · 03-19-2003, 11:08 AM

double deck blackjack is the most beatable in my experience. that is in a real casino, not online. i would also recommend playing at high dollar minimums to eliminate morons from playing at your table. nothing can break your concentration more than some idiot who does not know what they are doing. at a high dollar table the odds are that anyone playing there is aware of basic strategy and they are going to be as focused , if not more, than you. also i find having a successful betting strategy helps increase your chances of success. e.g. after winning 3 or 4 hands in a row i will reduce my stake to the minimum because the expectation is to lose soon. six deck blackjack exists for a reason. it eliminates advantage for the player and gives it back to the house. in double deck the shuffles are frequent, and counting strategy is easy to implement. i always count 2,3,4,5, and 6 as +1, and 10,j,q,k,a as -1. when they count is high in the +, say 3 or 4, it is not a given that you will win bc the dealer has a high chance of getting an ace or face as well but statistically speaking if he has to take a hit, he has a higher chance of busting. i also prefer sitting at first base. i know that position may not matter in terms of statistical breakdowns but i lose my concentration if someone is to the right of me and they make an ill advised hit that could cost me a victory. this is not a favorable position if you consider when at third base you get a chance to see all the cards that have been played and that info can impact decisions you make. the more of a nazi you are about counting cards the better your chances of winning. always know how many 2s have been played and how many 6s. all this is random suggestions but these are things i do to win at blackjack. oh yeah...know when to walk away, know when to run.

jjgold · 03-20-2003, 10:23 AM

Very few beat it other than some guys with very high iq's and math experts

online no one wins period, stay away

littleogre · 03-24-2003, 06:46 AM

Some online casinos are shady at best. I have played at some were the dealer will get 1 point better then you regardless. You get 17 they get 18 you get 18 they get 19 and so on. Also played at a couple that get bj at a rather high rate. What exactly are the odds of the house geting bj 5 times in a row in a 6 deck shoe? When things like that happen on a regular basis i take it as a hint to move on. There are only a couple casinos that i would recomend. Oh and i'm pretty sure single deck gives you the best odds. That is assuming all other things are equal.

Railbird · 03-24-2003, 07:06 AM

too many rules in Vegas, very hard to find any penetration and no mid deck entry rule strictly enforced.

RackMan · 03-24-2003, 11:53 AM

"Bringing Down The House,"
---The inside story of 6 M.I.T. students who took Vegas for millions, playing BJ.

Great read!

RackMan

littleogre · 03-24-2003, 12:45 PM

You guys should try pharos online casino. You don't even have to count. Because if you use perfect basics you have a tiny advantage over the house.

Blade · 03-25-2003, 06:37 PM

<< if you use perfect basics you have a tiny advantage over the house. >>

What gives you that idea, and what evidence do you have to support your conclusion?

littleogre · 03-25-2003, 06:43 PM

<<

<< if you use perfect basics you have a tiny advantage over the house. >>

What gives you that idea, and what evidence do you have to support your conclusion? >>

All you have to do is go to any bj strategy engine on the net and put in the house rules and it will give you the houses edge.

ronbets · 04-13-2003, 04:57 AM

From a guy that has been there, let me be brief and to the point. YOU CAN NOT MAKE A HEALTHY LIVING PLAYING BLACKJACK IN AC/CONN/LV. Why? Floor supervisors watch your play closer than Mama Bear eyes her cubs. Continual 4 figure winning sessions will be dealt with in the usual manner. EJECTIONS. However, let me leave you with some optimism. An expert player betting reds($5) and greens($25) could probably escape the rigid scrutiny. If you can make a living on this scale--Bona Salute.