JC (Jul 12, 2004 6:27:52 PM)
Let's get rolling we have critical mass. I want to thank everyone once more for all of the positive support I have received from the vast majority of you throughout my situation
stevo (Jul 12,
2004 6:29:03 PM)
Jay.......I know you have answered this many times. I have only read it second hand on net. Why did you decide to take the government on??? Did you think you would win?
JC (Jul 12, 2004 6:30:13 PM)
yes, I thought I would win. I still believe to this day that we are right on the law. I also did not want to live as a fugitive. MY first reaction right after I found out I was charged was "This is ridiculous. No judge will let this stand"
JC (Jul 12, 2004 6:30:32 PM)
"Any judge will see how this case is politically motivated"
JC (Jul 12, 2004 6:30:56 PM)
My mistake was I never had any reason to know how much the judges were part of the system
stevo (Jul 12,
2004 6:31:00 PM)
very gutsy of you and thanks for coming tonight
JC (Jul 12, 2004 6:31:17 PM)
thanks stevo, I'll try to come more often
altice (Jul 12,
2004 6:33:07 PM)
First off, I have always admired you guys after I read the article about you guys in GQ. Question, I have is what if/any similarities do you see between being a floor trader and the sportsbetting market. Would you ever consider going back to the Pacific Stock Exchange. Lastly, any advice for someone entering that market? MBA only way to go?
JC (Jul 12, 2004 6:34:29 PM)
I was a market maker in equity options. So I was booking bets on stock prices. The terms were a little different but the concept was the same. Calls and puts are nothing more than bets on the future prices of stocks between now and a fixed point in the future
JC (Jul 12, 2004 6:35:11 PM)
I am not interested in going back to the floor at this time. The business has radically changed. It's almost all electronis and all of the edge has been squeezed out of the options business
JC (Jul 12, 2004 6:36:17 PM)
I never knew any MBA's on the trading floor. Most of them work in offices and wear suits. Find what part of the business you want to be in and get a job IN the office or on the floor. Learn first hand. Take whatever job you have to
BettingProphets (Jul 12, 2004 6:36:55 PM)
Jay I was wondering if your personal opinions of Steve and Haden were affected by their position to stay and not confront the government on the issues that you and all of us believe to be right especially since you decided to take on the governemnt and stand up for what you believe in and they didnt
altice (Jul 12,
2004 6:37:00 PM)
JC (Jul 12, 2004 6:38:12 PM)
If they have changed it is only for the better. Those guys are the greatest. They have kept it going in the face of a lot of nonsense, and kept it going strong for that matter. Everyone made their own decision on whether or not to come back and fight.
JC (Jul 12, 2004 6:38:35 PM)
The last time I saw Steve we shook hands and said "One of us is making the right decision"
Walk_of_Life (Jul 12, 2004 6:38:40 PM)
Than you: Mr. Cohen, I have been studying the different bookmaking models of the American market as of late. As Altice mentioned, it seems to me that ARBITRAGING seems to be the most profitable model at this point. I understand why and I know you had this vision years before any other. My question is: are you in the position to offer advice to youngsters with questions like me, letís say via e-mail?
JC (Jul 12, 2004 6:39:00 PM)
I told Haden to keep it plusgged in and I will be back in a couple of weeks (^ years ago)
Walk_of_Life (Jul 12, 2004 6:39:29 PM)
May you post that address?
JC (Jul 12, 2004 6:40:50 PM)
Walk, I really do not follow the business from the customer side. I don't consider myself and expert in it. I find it amazing how the arbs like
freak (Jul 12, 2004 6:41:26 PM)
JC, my question is in regards to poker. WSEX and Olympic both have card rooms, however both either can't or don't compete very well with the likes of other poker rooms. What if anything can they do to become a major player in the poker business. Also what kind of income do these types of room typically generate on average. On a side note, if you were to operate a poker room, what would you do differently than what is being down today?
Chatmaster (Jul 12, 2004 6:41:27 PM)
kid vegas on deck
Walk_of_Life (Jul 12, 2004 6:41:28 PM)
Thank you, Mr. Cohen
JC (Jul 12, 2004 6:43:10 PM)
I don't have much first hand knowledge about WSEX's poker room. I know it's there, I know it makes a profit. I think they need to market themselves a little better. Maybe make their rake more competitive. (I don't even know how to play poker)
freak (Jul 12, 2004 6:43:45 PM)
LOL ok, just a tip 2/'7 os is the worst hand, thanks for the reply !
JC (Jul 12, 2004 6:43:53 PM)
I know they have had some TV commercials made that you might be seeing soon
KidVegas (Jul 12, 2004 6:44:19 PM)
JC, What is your take on the USA & Antigua talking settlement in the recent WTO ruling against
JC (Jul 12, 2004 6:44:32 PM)
now we're talking
JC (Jul 12, 2004 6:47:15 PM)
JC (Jul 12, 2004 6:47:54 PM)
teh WTO panel ruled that the enforcement of 1084 against Antiguan operaors was in violation of the GATS, which the
JC (Jul 12, 2004 6:48:44 PM)
the ruling only apples to Antigua and not other countries, so it gives the
JC (Jul 12, 2004 6:49:09 PM)
JC (Jul 12, 2004 6:49:37 PM)
does that answer your Q KId?
KidVegas (Jul 12, 2004 6:49:42 PM)
That would be great!!! Thanks JC.
oddessa (Jul 12,
2004 6:49:46 PM)
Jay, first off, good to see you out. I havent followed much of the post trial stuff , and dont know your current occupation, but what IYO is the Goverenments stance on you returning to 'profit' from the sporting industry in any respect as a partner or consultant? Does it affect your parole/supervised release? Would you be in violation of the law, or is it something they would have a hard time proving beyond a reasonable doubt. )like the last one......) I know that they have 'issues' with speaking with priorly convicted felons and so on, and this industry is over run with many of them. I ask b/c unfortunately I am sure I will be in same position at some point in future and curious if I'd have to throw in the towell or keep livin/workin under the radar bc as you know it would be pretty rough finding work in any other field when getting released.
JC (Jul 12, 2004 6:49:50 PM)
oddessa (Jul 12,
2004 6:49:53 PM)
JC (Jul 12, 2004 6:52:16 PM)
At the present time I am not working in the industry and I am not going to ask to work in the industry. My gut feeling is while the PO might not care, once the prosecutor in NY got wind of it he would make a stink. They are dumb but not stupid. I'm not looking to find out at this time.
JC (Jul 12, 2004 6:52:26 PM)
Further more for the record
JC (Jul 12, 2004 6:54:54 PM)
Just in case people don't realize what a low life my prosecutor Joe DeMarco is. I was all approved for a 7 day furlough from Nellis last June. I had about 9 months remaining. All kinds of people get them without a hitch, some what you might call dangerous people. Anyway, my furlough was denied because Joe DeMarco went out of his way to tell the BOP I was a flight risk and a threat to the community. This after 4 years on bail and voluntarily returning to the US and voluntarily surrendering to prison
JC (Jul 12, 2004 6:55:00 PM)
Just wanted to get that out
oddessa (Jul 12, 2004 6:55:25 PM)
I understand, I didnt mean to put you on the spot . I proabably hate those bastards more than you. appreciate the response and good luck..†
JC (Jul 12, 2004 6:55:45 PM)
that's a tall order Odessa, thanks and same to you
oddessa (Jul 12, 2004 6:55:53 PM)
Pancho_sanza (Jul 12, 2004 6:56:03 PM)
Jay what kind of year over year growth has WSEX had since they went on line in terms of active customers and revenue and has the rate of growth declined at all in the last few years? Is there still lots of room to grow?†
JC (Jul 12, 2004 6:58:17 PM)
I know before I went in, I think they were doubling every year. I haven't seen any recent figures. I think there is still room to grow in the business, particularly internationally. In the North American market, people need to be smarter about their marketing. They need to be value conscious about their ad buys. What market it hits, what kind of return they get from it?
The_Actuary (Jul 12, 2004 6:59:22 PM)
ello to everyone here-see alotta good guy's not around often enough hi Jay, and welcome back!!! given the explosion in the popularity of internet poker(like 100,000 people playing right now)-has quashed any hopes the US had of at least stemming the growth of internet gaming- which do you think is more likely to happen first- 1)US orders ISP's to prevent access to offshore gaming companies 2)relations become normalized to the point where most bank's credit cards are once again accepted? IOW if internet gaming from a US consumer's perspective was a stock would you be a buyer or a seller?
The_Actuary (Jul 12, 2004 6:59:46 PM)
BTw you should get a badge first jew to go to prison for booking since Lansky.;)
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:00:09 PM)
Lansky was never convicted, they never got him
The_Actuary (Jul 12, 2004 7:00:30 PM)
skyweasel (Jul 12, 2004 7:00:53 PM)
Lansky=not some you want to be compared to
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:01:21 PM)
I think in light of the recent WTO decision, the US would have a hard time blocking from the ISP side. As far as Poker is concerned the 5th circut ruled that the Wire Act applies only to sports and not casino games
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:01:23 PM)
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:02:08 PM)
So, any poker site that is blocked would have excellent grounds to stand up and fight them especially if they brought it in the 5th circuit.
The_Actuary (Jul 12, 2004 7:02:51 PM)
that is an interesting distinction
skyweasel (Jul 12, 2004 7:03:04 PM)
two questions; are you saying the wire act now applies to offshore sportsbetting? I thought your case only was about bookmaking, not the betting side.
skyweasel (Jul 12, 2004 7:03:16 PM)
other question is, do you read your pm's on mw site?
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:03:45 PM)
let me emphasize why this WTO thing is so important. The US gets more out of the WTO than any other country. Literall billions of dollars are derived from US favorable decisions. IF the US start picking and choosing which decisions they abide by (They have always abided by in the past) they will put all of the US favorable decisions, past and future, at risk
The_Actuary (Jul 12, 2004 7:04:11 PM)
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:04:52 PM)
the wire act applies to "any business that uses the wires to transmit gambling information" this includes sports and horse racing. There are NO federal laws against placing a bet of any kind. None
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:05:34 PM)
but I don't put it past the DOJ trying to call some medium sized better "a business"
skyweasel (Jul 12, 2004 7:06:38 PM)
they do have a "the law is what we say it is mentality"
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:06:44 PM)
No, I have never looked at PM's, I need to check them. Someone else told m,e today
skyweasel (Jul 12, 2004 7:06:57 PM)
I sent one some time ago
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:07:06 PM)
well, they do own the ref, the field, and the ball
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:07:15 PM)
thanks, I will check
skyweasel (Jul 12, 2004 7:07:18 PM)
clevfan (Jul 12, 2004 7:07:22 PM)
jay, I would think that your story would make an interesting book, any thoughts of trying to see the idea to a publisher?
clevfan (Jul 12, 2004 7:07:30 PM)
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:08:36 PM)
I have had several people contact me about it. I don't know how serious. Sometimes I want to tell the story and some times I really don't want to see it again. I just don't know how interesting it might be to the general public.
clevfan (Jul 12, 2004 7:08:56 PM)
I think it would be a great story
The_Actuary (Jul 12, 2004 7:08:58 PM)
goo dtime for it with all the gambling on T V
beefcake (Jul 12, 2004 7:09:09 PM)
Jay really admire you and what you have done thx
oddessa (Jul 12, 2004 7:09:29 PM)
Gotta kill a woman and toss her offa boat and you have a best seller.
beefcake (Jul 12, 2004 7:09:33 PM)
What are the chances of a sports handicapper being prosecuted ?
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:10:46 PM)
as long as the handicapper is just selling picks or betting, slim I think. IF he is getting a percentage of losses from somewhere, I think his chances are higher. How much depends on who you do business with and in what state
The_Major (Jul 12, 2004 7:11:05 PM)
When you say the wire act applies to "any business that transmits gambling in", in your opinion, is don best and other companies based in the states which provide line services, at risk? I would say so, and if so, why have they not been indicted...... and I have a follow up after your answer
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:11:15 PM)
I only skimmed STing's article but I agree with him
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:13:10 PM)
I would think an aggressive prosecutor could take on a line service. The government claims they reserve the descretion who to prosecute. They have not prosecuted NY OTB even though they have put them on notice they may be in violation of 1084. They don't have the motivation of the stomach to go after the line services....yet
The_Major (Jul 12, 2004 7:13:43 PM)
lets assume that DB is going to move the rest of their company to england(as they just moved the schedule divison) would they still go after him like they did you?
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:14:19 PM)
again, it's unlikely, they haven't gone after him here. But they could if they wanted to
The_Major (Jul 12, 2004 7:14:27 PM)
BettingProphets (Jul 12, 2004 7:15:16 PM)
Jay your opinion on SOS and Bobby as a book in regards to player safety I have always enjoyed playing there and I think its an overlooked spot because they do not advertise. I know the island is small and you over the years got to know many of the operators personally.
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:15:44 PM)
Bobby is as solid as they come. Your money is extremely safe there.
BettingProphets (Jul 12, 2004 7:15:55 PM)
freak (Jul 12, 2004 7:16:34 PM)
JC, With the upcoming football season, what is your thoughts on further collapses or consolidations of books? Do you see a rocky road ahead, or one of prosperity not only for the books but the safety of the players money as well? With some of the sites ala Royal experiencing severe money issues, and now Cascade going into a venture with Del Mar, what's your take?
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:18:57 PM)
just like I said in the forums recently. Many of these places are insolvent on paper. Customer funds which includes customer deposits, customer net winnings, and earned bonuses exceed cash on hand. TOo many places are operating out of customer money. They start that from day one. This is the biggest problem in the industry. You can't assume just because they are small retail customers that the money is yours the minute it hits your account
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:19:04 PM)
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:19:31 PM)
if a site is slow paying you and it is not just a legitimate administrative issue, run
freak (Jul 12, 2004 7:20:01 PM)
Based on your answer ,without naming the books, how many would you say are safe to play at?
BigMo (Jul 12, 2004 7:20:14 PM)
JC- do you have any thoughts about the future of stocks in the online sector? Any specific ones? NASA just went public and valued at $200million, besides buying out betmill, who do they go after?. Neteller recently went public. SBT has rebounded, so has crypto. The overall gaming sector has been very strong. Are we seeing a reemergence of this online sector? Any specific stocks you like?
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:20:21 PM)
20% and I am being generous
BigMo (Jul 12, 2004 7:20:33 PM)
Reserve me a follow up chatguru
freak (Jul 12, 2004 7:20:35 PM)
Very small %, thanks
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:21:11 PM)
BigMo, you are the master, I don't follow the stocks.
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:21:27 PM)
Who wereth einvestors in NASA? IS that a legitimate placement?
BigMo (Jul 12, 2004 7:21:45 PM)
So all the updates I sent you were useless? lol.
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:22:00 PM)
And more impoartantly, can they pay Billy now?
oddessa (Jul 12, 2004 7:22:10 PM)
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:22:18 PM)
Reading is reading in jail, and it was appreciated
Chatmaster (Jul 12, 2004 7:22:20 PM)
they are paying millenium a ton
BigMo (Jul 12, 2004 7:22:24 PM)
REgarding nasa, looks like caruthers sold a huge block, half the placement, they are on aim.
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:22:38 PM)
Sold to who?
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:22:52 PM)
a friend of the'r's on credit? or is it real?
BigMo (Jul 12, 2004 7:23:11 PM)
interesting que. They report institutional investors, will sell the other half to public, will see how that goes.
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:23:15 PM)
I was under the impression they owned half of millenium all along, I thought it was a relative of Kaplan's
Chatmaster (Jul 12, 2004 7:23:21 PM)
From the 27.3 million proceeds, 8.2 million pounds will be used to buy out the 49 percent of Millennium Group not already owned by the company. Millennium runs some of Betonsports online gambling portals
Pancho_sanza (Jul 12, 2004 7:23:49 PM)
I think they also own MVPbets
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:24:09 PM)
I read in the article all of the stock belonged to a single shareholder, It's Carruthers and not Kaplan?
BettingProphets (Jul 12, 2004 7:24:10 PM)
millenium owns wagermall and millenium
BettingProphets (Jul 12, 2004 7:24:15 PM)
BigMo (Jul 12, 2004 7:24:33 PM)
JC I don't know
skyweasel (Jul 12, 2004 7:24:41 PM)
It seems hypocritcal for Uncle to have gone after Antigua in the first place when the UK has legal BM's and lots of US players are betting there. Now the WTO decision looks like it will bite them in the ass. Is there anyone in congress who has any sense on this issue and might look to regulate internet gambling instead of just trying to play parent to millions of supposedly free, American adults?
Chatmaster (Jul 12, 2004 7:24:44 PM)
after that, pick6
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:25:44 PM)
Conyers, John COnyers of Michigan had a bill to study regulation of online gambling. It may still be out there
picksix (Jul 12, 2004 7:26:59 PM)
JC, I've always been a big fan of you and wsex. I love playing the interactives there and was wondering who came up with the idea, you or Steve, and if it has played out as originally planned. Were you ever a market maker at wsex? Thanks
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:28:11 PM)
It was Steve's idea to do it on games in progress. I handled the long term hockey contracts the first year and covered the ttail end of an interactive once. It's too hard. I don't know how he does it
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:28:53 PM)
Is that it?
Minnow (Jul 12, 2004 7:28:56 PM)
Jay, thanks for being here. This was a great chat with many relevant questions pertaining to the industry. I hope you can elaborate on some of them in greater detail down the road.
Chatmaster (Jul 12, 2004 7:29:03 PM)
yes that is jc ty for your time
TTinCO (Jul 12, 2004 7:29:09 PM)
dante (Jul 12, 2004 7:29:11 PM)
thank you Jay for taking the time
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:29:21 PM)
I hope so too, thanks for having me, and thanks to everyone for attending. See you all in the Mess Hall
BigMo (Jul 12, 2004 7:29:36 PM)
jayhawk (Jul 12, 2004 7:29:41 PM)
Just got here and missed it all but still want to thank Jay for his time and the opportunity
pmj18 (Jul 12, 2004 7:29:50 PM)
oddessa (Jul 12, 2004 7:29:52 PM)
Thanks jay, if anything, this chat made me realize that my future is defintely shakey
dante (Jul 12, 2004 7:29:56 PM)
Jay???? may I ask one question
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:29:59 PM)
oddessa (Jul 12, 2004 7:30:00 PM)
u rattled my cage
Walk_of_Life (Jul 12, 2004 7:30:00 PM)
thank you, Jay
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:30:04 PM)
dante (Jul 12, 2004 7:30:26 PM)
thanks....Was the jail you were at did you have radio or tv at all or nothing like that for all that time?
The_Major (Jul 12, 2004 7:30:39 PM)
Thanks a ton Jay, always greatly appreciated, we will get this chat into your section at MW and get it on the front page tomorrow.
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:31:04 PM)
I had a radio, there were TV's in a common room. The only thing I really watched was football, and a little news, not much else
dante (Jul 12, 2004 7:31:13 PM)
thank you for the answer
freak (Jul 12, 2004 7:31:16 PM)
Thanks Jay and have a great evening, look oput for Berkman tonight !!
JC (Jul 12, 2004 7:31:29 PM)
Dante, you're not taking a "trip" soon I hope?
dante (Jul 12, 2004 7:31:38 PM)
dante (Jul 12, 2004 7:31:39 PM)
dante (Jul 12, 2004 7:31:46 PM)
was just curious
Yzerman#19 (Jul 12, 2004 7:31:58 PM)
thanks for coming tonight JC